Trump and Putin negotiating War in Ukraine without Zelensky?

The only thing I can think of is, he is doing some shock and awe to try and bring both parties nearer to making a peace deal.

As a standalone idea, the 28 points deal is nuts.

We have just watched the news and I am appalled at the way Ukraine is being pressured into signing a deal that gives Russia what it wants.
Where is the input fron European leaders !!!

The victim of an attack is being punished and forced to submit to more bullying and intimidation. It's got Trump and his ambition written all over it.

I AM speechless with rage- I cant say what I really want to say! Corrupt is about as far as is allowed....

Where is the input fron European leaders !!!

Where indeed.

Unless they know more than we do.

Off for the weekend somewhere?

Other than getting an effigy of Putin and sticking pins in him, I can't think what else to do.

The European Leaders are full of fine Talk but we need ACTION PDQ if Ukraine has a chance of reclaiming their land.

If and when Trump returns to the U.K. maybe playing golf in Scotland, I hope he is booed and made to feel unwelcome. He is a smarmy rat of the highest order.

The European Leaders are full of fine Talk but we need ACTION PDQ if Ukraine has a chance of reclaiming their land.

Ther was a "coalition of the willing".

Not sure what has happened to that.

Unless they are all in meetings and on telephone calls to each other, this weekend.

Time for prayer. methinks.

It looks as if the coalition of the willing aren't as willing as they appear. Europe needs to stand up to Trump.

Zelensky is more of a man than Trump and Putin put together. He is small in statue but big in heart and moral integrity.

I think other European leaders are fearful of a repeat of the beginning of WW2. Once Putin gets his way, where will his eyes turn next? We know Finland and Sweden are rearming, the Baltic nations are on edge. Canada also on the basis of a land grab appearing as the Arctic ice melts. I'm quite glad I'm old enough not to see the outcome of all this.

Trump's plans to annexe Greenland and even Canada (!) have not come to anything so why not get together with Putin and carve up the Ukraine?

That's what Trump's cock-eyed idea of a "peace" plan is all about.

That's if the ghost of Jeffrey Epstein doesn't reach out from beyond the grave and put him in prison......

Most European politicians are quite clear that Ukraine cannot be forced into giving up territory, must be able to defend itself and must be free to make decisions about it's own future with regard to membership of NATO, Trump knows this so my guess is that he's trying to find a way of stopping US support for Ukraine rather than expecting to get peace.
Europe is already paying for more of the weapons produced by the US so it's in everyone's interests to deal with Trump diplomatically rather try to bully the bully. Ukraine needs things only the US currently can provide, European countries need to prevent Putin gaining strategically important parts of Ukraine and Trump is a totally loose cannon. No wonder politicians are being restrained.

Trump boasted about settling the war in an afternoon. It was never going to be that easy with Putin in the mix. Trump may be able to negotiate with some leaders but Putin will never be one of them.
The terms on Trump's proposal are outrageous and threatening to withdraw US support if Zelensky does not agree makes my blood boil.

I don’t understand why it’s okay for so many young men to have died in this war. And to show no wish to stop the slaughter.
I listened to a female Ukrainian politician on tv saying that Ukraine stopped fighting and agreed to give up certain areas of Ukraine then Ukraine will cease to exist as a country. But will it? There isn’t a never ending supply of men able to fight.
Putin is not going to back down.
It’s morally wrong for the USA and the west to remain involved with Ukraine and to oversee the loss of life on this scale.

Typo - if Ukraine

Ukraine and Europe must continue to fight off Russian aggression.

Standing up to a bully isn't trying to bully a bully foxie.

Russia has a huge population and Ukraine has lost about 10 million leaving it with around 30 million. Not sustainable.

No it isn't Smileless which is why Europeans are being very careful in their dealings with Trump. What would you see as "standing up to Trump", what would you expect European leaders to be doing and saying ATM to demonstrate that they are "standing up to Trump"?

Granatlast, I agree with you. Mr Putin will see any " victory" as carte blanche to eye up any other country that has reserves that he might find useful.

ronib

Russia has a huge population and Ukraine has lost about 10 million leaving it with around 30 million. Not sustainable.

Eh> You cant mean 10 million people in fighting, surely?

I find myself wondering what’s in it for Trump or the USA. Then remembering the rumours that the Russians have records of Trumps behaviour during a visit there some years ago

Trump has no moral compass… actually he has and it points directly to himself. Self obsessed and arrogant.
As my Nan used to say ‘What goes around comes around’. One can only hope .

I don’t understand why it’s okay for so many young men to have died in this war. And to show no wish to stop the slaughter.

Ronib I haven't seen any evidence that anyone thinks *it's OK" for anyone to die in this awful conflict whether they are Ukrainian or Russian. In terms of actual casualties, Russia is losing many more soldiers than Ukraine and the progress of it's troops into Ukraine has been extremely slow. Yet, Putin shows no sign of wanting to stop his aggression. The deal put forward by Trump rewards Putin for his aggression, gives him more territory than he has actually taken so far, removes Ukraine's ability to defend itself in the future and would prevent Ukraine from furthering it's request to join NATO. It would also remove all the sanctions on Russia enabling Putin to rebuild his economic strength. How would this prevent further conflict and aggression in the future and prevent further "slaughter" of innocent people?