Trump and Putin negotiating War in Ukraine without Zelensky?

Yes but its not up to TRIP (whoever they may be): it's for the parties involved.

I've just listened to Trip, it explains very clearly why Ukraine can't accept the deal and why it is completely unacceptable to any right minded person.

TRIP has gone through the peace plan line by line.

It is straight out of Putin's playbook, and has dire implication for Europe.

If we allow this to happen we will get everything we deserve!

It’s the desire for simple solutions to complex problems. Link it with an easily identified group to other and scapegoat and away you go.

Currently it’s immigrants but the rhetoric of some pro Palestinian groups is anti semitic. Stressing here, though I shouldn’t need to, that disagreeing with the current Israeli govrrnment is not anti semitic

I'm intending to see it and yes, so much of Trump's actions are straight out of the Hitler playbook. As indeed is some of the rhetoric from Reform, AFD and the likes of Tommy Robinson. Scary stuff as it "speaks" to many people just like it did in Hitler's Germany.

I’ve just been to watch Nuremberg at the cinema. IMO a good film. One of the great messages was that what happened in Germany could happen anywhere.
That’s a particularly relevant message given Trump, Putin and the rise of the right in Europe.
Wouldn’t you follow such a man, who said he could make your country great again - Herman Goring of Hitler (for clarity, I’m paraphrasing

It appears all the relevant parties including Ukraine are holding high level talks in Geneva today. I don't see that anyone has been left out. One doesn't expect heads of state to attend second tier talks however important.

Trump changes his mind, what's left of it, probably more times than he changes his socks. It's still Sunday, and half a week could be a long enough time. (excuse the paraphrase)

Smileless2012

Maybe he'll only take so much and do just that AGAA.

The Ukrainians are a proud people. Zelensky is so much a better man than Trump. How much of this can they take?

Maybe he'll only take so much and do just that AGAA.

That is what bullies do. He is an out and out b……………d.

Trump seems to enjoy demeaning Zelensky. I wish he would tell him to 🤬

Mine too WW just because Trump's prepared to grovel to Putin, doesn't mean anyone else will .

Trump is now asking Zelensky to grovel over the peace plan!

I know what my reaction would be.

Since when did Russia need a 'justification' for an attack? exactly Maremia.

Putin's aim is to remake the USSR. Even if he is given more land he will want more. Putin has no scruples about sticking to a plan that favours Russia. Weakening Ukraine more plays into his hands.

Prevention is better than cure.
Prevent future attacks on Ukraine, by keeping Ukraine strong.

Since when did Russia need a 'justification' for an attack?
Not having a justification will not prevent future attacks.

Remember 1938 ronib
Despots aren’t reliable (as we see with bot Putin and his friend The Donald )

But what possible justification could Russia give for any future attacks if it has been given its wish list? Also if and big if Russia did try to take more land than agreed, a huge counter attack from the west would be justified.

Surely he'll not agree to this ludicrous plan.

Some in the US government have said the plan isn't the US way and is a Russian wish list.
If Zelensky agrees with the plan it leaves Ukraine wide open to another attack also other nearby countries.

The only thing that makes any sense is if Putin really does have something on Trump that he’s been saving for a rainy day.Like now.
Trump has talked tough in public but where he can has pushed Putin’s agenda and point of view remorselessly.He’s said that Ukraine started the war and publicly embarrassed Zelensky in the Oval Office.

We keep forgetting that when Trump was a close friend of Epstein, he was actually a Democrat. That means if he asks for Democrats to be looked at for wrong doing and that excludes them from their information being publicly released, it will cover him too! Hopefully, you get what I mean!

Yes😊 apparently it is in one of the Epstein e-mails to his brother!