Trump and Putin negotiating War in Ukraine without Zelensky?

Fancythat as Wikipedia is an open source production the contents can be altered and manipulated. If you Google how reliable is Wikipedia you'll find that while technical info is most likely to be accurate, topical and political information is less likely to be accurate.
Always check sources. Russia is an evil empire and wants to be even more of one.

Fancythat
Can you imagine the corruption that went on when they joined the eu in 2007.
It was all the mafias birthdays and Christmas’s came at once.
Much the same as what happened when Greece joined.

petra

fancythat

Didnt realise it was all as bad as this

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine#:~:text=The%20modern%20period%20of%20Ukrainian,and%20200%20million%20US%20dollars.

All the ex communist countries are corrupt.
I lived in one for 5 years and had a holiday let in another.
The lady who looked after the holiday let was Ukrainian and I mixed with some Ukrainians in the country I was living in.
Corruption is like breathing to them.
No disrespect to them, it’s just a way of life.

Gosh.

I thought and assumed that "progress" had been made in those countries.

. It's about time Europe stood on its own feet

I am rather alarmed at how weak it looks.

Aveline

*fancythat*. Wikipedia is not gospel truth and could have been written by pro Russian bots.

I dont see many people complain about Wiki

and the article written by Russian bots?
That seems extremely far fetched an idea to me

Maremia

Think some of the eastern European countries are also concerned. Those in the path of Putin's ambitions.

or have past experience of forced occupation. Within living memory, the Baltic states were invaded by both Russia and Germany.

www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/baltic-states-plan-mass-evacuations-case-russian-attack-2025-10-10/

ronib

No Europe is bankrupt? How many more young men are you willing to kill?

It is estimated that 650,000 young men have left Ukraine for Poland and Germany.
Germany are not best pleased.
On a program yesterday a fighting soldier claimed that 10,000 soldiers have deserted.

www.google.com/search?q=how+many+young+ukrainian+men+have+fled+to+poland+and+germany&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:1f8a2a4d,vid:4zI4VPNmzos,st:0

fancythat

Didnt realise it was all as bad as this

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine#:~:text=The%20modern%20period%20of%20Ukrainian,and%20200%20million%20US%20dollars.

All the ex communist countries are corrupt.
I lived in one for 5 years and had a holiday let in another.
The lady who looked after the holiday let was Ukrainian and I mixed with some Ukrainians in the country I was living in.
Corruption is like breathing to them.
No disrespect to them, it’s just a way of life.

No Europe is bankrupt? How many more young men are you willing to kill?

I agree. Europe must take up the slack. It'll cost us of course but will be money and effort well spent.

The gospel is best kept out of all news?

If Trump carries out his threat to withdraw support from Ukraine foxie, I think Europe should take up the slack. It's about time Europe stood on its own feet instead of sucking up to Trump, who is sucking up to Putin.

fancythat. Wikipedia is not gospel truth and could have been written by pro Russian bots.

If Ukraine agrees to Trump's plan then it gives Russia so much more power. A lull in fighting means Russia can regroup and strengthen its army and resources
I don't believe Russia will go quietly. They will be back to carry on with their plan to take more land and bring back the USSR.

Didnt realise it was all as bad as this

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine#:~:text=The%20modern%20period%20of%20Ukrainian,and%20200%20million%20US%20dollars.

Foxie48- 07.55 and 09.12.

I couldn't have said this better and agree with your assertions. It's all very worrying. I guess the EU leaders are currently quiet as they are debating how to respond to Trump and his "peace plan" collectively....

Europe has to step up to the bullies in Russian and the US

In what ways would you suggest?

foxie48 absolutely right.

Zelensky is under such severe pressure - not only has he had a war to fight there is domestic trouble with many in government being accused of massive corruption.

I think corruption isn’t new in the Ukraine government as I’ve read previously of corruption in Ukraine.

Putin is on the ropes economically- he is not winning this war and so I think he's playing his usual shifty game of getting what he wants and claiming the victory.

Europe has to step up to the bullies in Russian and the US. Putin can be defeated but only when his own people finally turn on him.

Peace at any price is not peace, and so if Ukraine holds out with support form its allies for one more winter Putin will fall.
His campaign in Ukraine was never sustainable and so let's not betray the freedoms so bravely fought for by even considering Trump's proposals.

Thank you foxie for putting it so well.

I don’t understand why it’s okay for so many young men to have died in this war. And to show no wish to stop the slaughter.

Ronib I haven't seen any evidence that anyone thinks *it's OK" for anyone to die in this awful conflict whether they are Ukrainian or Russian. In terms of actual casualties, Russia is losing many more soldiers than Ukraine and the progress of it's troops into Ukraine has been extremely slow. Yet, Putin shows no sign of wanting to stop his aggression. The deal put forward by Trump rewards Putin for his aggression, gives him more territory than he has actually taken so far, removes Ukraine's ability to defend itself in the future and would prevent Ukraine from furthering it's request to join NATO. It would also remove all the sanctions on Russia enabling Putin to rebuild his economic strength. How would this prevent further conflict and aggression in the future and prevent further "slaughter" of innocent people?

Trump has no moral compass… actually he has and it points directly to himself. Self obsessed and arrogant.
As my Nan used to say ‘What goes around comes around’. One can only hope .

I find myself wondering what’s in it for Trump or the USA. Then remembering the rumours that the Russians have records of Trumps behaviour during a visit there some years ago

ronib

Russia has a huge population and Ukraine has lost about 10 million leaving it with around 30 million. Not sustainable.

Eh> You cant mean 10 million people in fighting, surely?

Granatlast, I agree with you. Mr Putin will see any " victory" as carte blanche to eye up any other country that has reserves that he might find useful.