Trump and Putin negotiating War in Ukraine without Zelensky?

No it isn't Smileless which is why Europeans are being very careful in their dealings with Trump. What would you see as "standing up to Trump", what would you expect European leaders to be doing and saying ATM to demonstrate that they are "standing up to Trump"?

Russia has a huge population and Ukraine has lost about 10 million leaving it with around 30 million. Not sustainable.

Standing up to a bully isn't trying to bully a bully foxie.

Ukraine and Europe must continue to fight off Russian aggression.

Typo - if Ukraine

I don’t understand why it’s okay for so many young men to have died in this war. And to show no wish to stop the slaughter.
I listened to a female Ukrainian politician on tv saying that Ukraine stopped fighting and agreed to give up certain areas of Ukraine then Ukraine will cease to exist as a country. But will it? There isn’t a never ending supply of men able to fight.
Putin is not going to back down.
It’s morally wrong for the USA and the west to remain involved with Ukraine and to oversee the loss of life on this scale.

Trump boasted about settling the war in an afternoon. It was never going to be that easy with Putin in the mix. Trump may be able to negotiate with some leaders but Putin will never be one of them.
The terms on Trump's proposal are outrageous and threatening to withdraw US support if Zelensky does not agree makes my blood boil.

Most European politicians are quite clear that Ukraine cannot be forced into giving up territory, must be able to defend itself and must be free to make decisions about it's own future with regard to membership of NATO, Trump knows this so my guess is that he's trying to find a way of stopping US support for Ukraine rather than expecting to get peace.
Europe is already paying for more of the weapons produced by the US so it's in everyone's interests to deal with Trump diplomatically rather try to bully the bully. Ukraine needs things only the US currently can provide, European countries need to prevent Putin gaining strategically important parts of Ukraine and Trump is a totally loose cannon. No wonder politicians are being restrained.

Trump's plans to annexe Greenland and even Canada (!) have not come to anything so why not get together with Putin and carve up the Ukraine?

That's what Trump's cock-eyed idea of a "peace" plan is all about.

That's if the ghost of Jeffrey Epstein doesn't reach out from beyond the grave and put him in prison......

I think other European leaders are fearful of a repeat of the beginning of WW2. Once Putin gets his way, where will his eyes turn next? We know Finland and Sweden are rearming, the Baltic nations are on edge. Canada also on the basis of a land grab appearing as the Arctic ice melts. I'm quite glad I'm old enough not to see the outcome of all this.

Zelensky is more of a man than Trump and Putin put together. He is small in statue but big in heart and moral integrity.

It looks as if the coalition of the willing aren't as willing as they appear. Europe needs to stand up to Trump.

Time for prayer. methinks.

The European Leaders are full of fine Talk but we need ACTION PDQ if Ukraine has a chance of reclaiming their land.

Ther was a "coalition of the willing".

Not sure what has happened to that.

Unless they are all in meetings and on telephone calls to each other, this weekend.

Other than getting an effigy of Putin and sticking pins in him, I can't think what else to do.

The European Leaders are full of fine Talk but we need ACTION PDQ if Ukraine has a chance of reclaiming their land.

If and when Trump returns to the U.K. maybe playing golf in Scotland, I hope he is booed and made to feel unwelcome. He is a smarmy rat of the highest order.

Where is the input fron European leaders !!!

Where indeed.

Unless they know more than we do.

Off for the weekend somewhere?

I AM speechless with rage- I cant say what I really want to say! Corrupt is about as far as is allowed....

The victim of an attack is being punished and forced to submit to more bullying and intimidation. It's got Trump and his ambition written all over it.

We have just watched the news and I am appalled at the way Ukraine is being pressured into signing a deal that gives Russia what it wants.
Where is the input fron European leaders !!!

The only thing I can think of is, he is doing some shock and awe to try and bring both parties nearer to making a peace deal.

As a standalone idea, the 28 points deal is nuts.

Trump is looking like a traitor to the free world and not an ally we can trust anymore.

I'm so angry but it also makes me fearful for the future in Europe. I don't think Zelensky will accept this peace deal as it gives Russia/Putin everything he wants. What does Putin have on Trump? That's the question that keeps coming back to me. Trump has done a lot of business with Russians, much of his building projects have been funded by Russian money. That's the problem with having a shady businessman as POTUS, his pockets have been lined with money stolen from the Russian people and filtered through shell companies.

I hope Zelensky tells him where to shove his peace plan and Europe does too.

Having blamed Zelensky for starting the war, now Trump can blame Zelensky for why Trump didn't win it.

Trump has given Zelensky till next Thursday to sign the peace plan or he will withdraw all help, info etc to Ukraine.

Trump and Putin are the absolute pits. I have much worse words for them but GN would remove my comments.