Covid

This is completely untrue, Many countries coped much better. The death rate in the UK was one of the worst, if not the worst in Europe.

GrannyGravy13

At the beginning of April 2020 the flights into U.K. were 80% less than normal.

The U.K. isn’t self sufficient, these flights carried medical supplies, foodstuffs, post etc., not just people having a jolly
travel restrictions were in full force.

As cases of coronavirus were gradually identified in more and more countries across the world, in the early months of 2020 there was clear evidence that the first cases in most countries had a travel history from China, and then it was significantly spread from people travelling from Italy - which had been hit hard by travellers from China. Wuhan and I think three other cities only went into lockdown after thousands of people had already left for the Chinese New Year holiday, travelling both across and outside China. My son was working some 1000 miles from Wuhan, and the first cases in his city were in people arriving from Wuhan who had apparently been incubating it. The first cases in England were a family who travelled from Wuhan (to York) the day before Wuhan went into lockdown. I have been re-reading my son’s WhatsApp messages from 23 January 2020 onwards, and its like reading a horror story, what he and his wife were learning from Chinese media, vs what the British press were reporting, the extraordinary daily statistics and charts on Worldometer, and if air travel by April was down 80% it was far too little, too late. All international passenger travel should have been stopped. I’m just glad their son wasn’t born then.

Allira

twiglet77

The virus was spread around the world by people travelling around the world. All international travel should have been halted, and perhaps it could have been contained far more effectively than inventing the “rule of six” and similar nonsense.

I worked on checkouts in Waitrose throughout, in a branch very near a large hospital. My son lives in China and he and his wife were aghast at the madness demonstrated by store management, as well as by out government.

My son lives in China and he and his wife were aghast at the madness demonstrated by store management, as well as by out government

I'm not sure what you mean by the madness demonstrated - do you mean lack of action or too stringent action?

Yes, I know of people who live in Wuhan and the fact that they were locked down in 2019 (far more stringent rules than we had here) but not told why. This is because their Government knew of the virus in 2019 but did not inform the rest of the world for far too log.

That's got me confused now - as I just googled Chat GPT and asked when a Lockdown started in Wuhan and the reply came back of - 10am, 23 January 2020.

The essence of the Covid Equiry can be summarised as:

Lockdowns do not work, but we should have started them earlier.

That epitomises the level of logic applied by the governing classes. 🤷‍♀️

* Inquiry

Smileless2012

No one knew what they were doing because we'd never been faced with anything like it before.

Easy to criticise with the curse benefit of hindsight.

Except there was a plan which was studiously ignored.

Galaxy

Well yes, the rules were nonsense but were dispatched with such authoritarian zeal. It is that contradiction which I think will make it extraordinarily difficult to enforce any future restrictions if necessary.

Why did numbers rocket when lockdowns were lifted?

CariadAgain

Allira

twiglet77

The virus was spread around the world by people travelling around the world. All international travel should have been halted, and perhaps it could have been contained far more effectively than inventing the “rule of six” and similar nonsense.

I worked on checkouts in Waitrose throughout, in a branch very near a large hospital. My son lives in China and he and his wife were aghast at the madness demonstrated by store management, as well as by out government.

My son lives in China and he and his wife were aghast at the madness demonstrated by store management, as well as by out government

I'm not sure what you mean by the madness demonstrated - do you mean lack of action or too stringent action?

Yes, I know of people who live in Wuhan and the fact that they were locked down in 2019 (far more stringent rules than we had here) but not told why. This is because their Government knew of the virus in 2019 but did not inform the rest of the world for far too log.

That's got me confused now - as I just googled Chat GPT and asked when a Lockdown started in Wuhan and the reply came back of - 10am, 23 January 2020.

I know that people in Wuhan knew something was happening way before the rest of us. When we talk about lockdowns we mean 'Stay at Home'.
For many of them, their homes were closed up by the authorities and bags of food dumped outside the door for them.
We left Australia in November 2019 and Chinese workers there were getting reports from their families of a mysterious respiratory illness and people dying in Wuhan.

We should have had a Disaster Emergency Plan ready to action here as the authorities knew something like this would happen at some time in the future. We had warnings from SARS and MERS.

The UK admittedly hadn't faced a Covid pandemic specifically before but we were not starting from a clueless, unprepared situation. There were prepared and tested plans and systems in place to guide the government and how to respond and manage such pandemics. E.g. there was one for Bird flu specifically, principles of which to be adapted for any other pandemic strain on emergence. Cobra meetings form a key part of that plan, to include PM (or nominated deputy if unable to attend) to discuss, collaborate, implement such plans and to coordinate public service leaders ( ie. health, police, education etc) to respond in domino effect. Cobra to lead with clear government leadership steer.

I attended training and cross public services testing of the such pandemic plans in a previous role.

Mistakes can be made, agreed. But learning from the Covid enquiry that the culture of Bori's government was "toxic, sexist, indecisive and chaotic" and where 'junior women were talked over or ignored" is underwhelming at best, catastrophic at worst. That the government made rules, but then did not comply themselves, did not inspire confidence and undermined compliance. February 2020 the enquiry found was "a lost month". That Boris failed to attend multiple early Cobra meetings during February 2020 and into March borders on incompetence.

The Covid report concluded "as a result of the poor culture at the centre of the UK government, the quality of advice and decision making suffered" and how " if leaders had acted quicker, lives could have been saved."

We can't change what happened but that is the benefit of the enquiry- that such learning should GALVANISE future leaders, in future pandemics to behave differently. Take quick action and heed the science, risks and warnings. Be good role models as leaders, quell chaos and arguments, act decisively, attend Cobra meetings, be aware of and enact existing pandemic prepared plans, communicate well with the public, live and breathe Nolan principles, avoid and prevent corruption, don't be self serving. Basically just act calmly and responsibly as it will all come out in the wash.....

I agree with your last paragraph Lemonjam though, just reading SM comments like I won’t be following orders next time, the idea that any government could quell chaos and arguments is unlikely.

Shocking to find out that none of the other UK governments did any better. Do you think governments will work together next time?
Or would we do better all relying on lanyards next time?

Lanyards?

Remind me about lanyards.

Were they supposed to ward off infection?

When I said quell chaos and arguments, I should further qualify to do that WITHIN government. The Covid enquiry found that Boris lead by leading a chaotic culture that was argumentative, sexist and didn't listen to women....

The pandemic plans were in place but the leadership and structures for effective decision making at government level were not in place. That is a legacy future governments surely will not want to repeat?

I also agree with you that there needs to be better coordination of the central task forces of England Scotland, Wales and Northern Island and better inclusion of scientific expertise form devolved nations. Plus better scrutiny of emergency powers such as those to impose lockdowns- all varied and chaotic.

I understand the devolved nations leaders were also found to act too little, too late to a varying extent but not to the degree of failures in Downing Street. Nicola Sturgeon was found to be a "diligent and serious leader"- her mistake was to make decisions in only a small circle, excluding other minsters and experts from discussions. Mark Drayfield was found to be a "careful and considered" leader and have most inclusive decision making process but implanted his firebreak lockdown in Autumn 2020 too late. Arlene Foster's decision making was found to be marred by poor relationships and political disputes which lead to chaotic communication.

The enquiry learning results in a clear "what NOT to do" list for future leaders -to take into early COBRA and cabinet meetings.

Each meeting could/should end with reflection on whether those things are being avoided- ie. as a result is our decision making rational, expert lead, timely and effective? Are we exercising emergency powers for lockdown at the earliest appropriate opportunity effectively, efficiently, and even handedly across the devolved nations?

It's not rocket science....

MaizieD

Lanyards?

Remind me about lanyards.

Were they supposed to ward off infection?

I took it as a barbed comment MaizieD - as in ‘those who wore them didn’t have to abide by the rules like the rest of us’.

Perhaps I’m wrong?

FriedGreenTomatoes2

MaizieD

Lanyards?

Remind me about lanyards.

Were they supposed to ward off infection?

I took it as a barbed comment MaizieD - as in ‘those who wore them didn’t have to abide by the rules like the rest of us’.

Perhaps I’m wrong?

No, that is correct, FriedGreenTomatoes
It denoted exemption from wearing a mask for various reasons, warned others to keep a social distance as the wearer might find that difficult.

Lanyards were used pre-Covid to indicate the wearer had a hidden disability.

Not a barbed comment at all. A genuine question. I’d forgotten all about lanyards.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

The essence of the Covid Equiry can be summarised as:

Lockdowns do not work, but we should have started them earlier.

That epitomises the level of logic applied by the governing classes. 🤷‍♀️

It is the wording that seems wrong to me..
Perhaps lockdown didn't work because it was introduced too late. If it had been brought in sooner, it might have proved very effective. But then, if that had led to the virus not spreading too badly, some people would have deduced that lockdown had been unnecessary. Sometimes you can't win!

FriedGreenTomatoes2

MaizieD

Lanyards?

Remind me about lanyards.

Were they supposed to ward off infection?

I took it as a barbed comment MaizieD - as in ‘those who wore them didn’t have to abide by the rules like the rest of us’.

Perhaps I’m wrong?

I took it the exact same way.

MaizieD

Not a barbed comment at all. A genuine question. I’d forgotten all about lanyards.

No, not you.

The original comment, I think. As I read it Mollygo was being ironic in that lanyards would possibly be thought to protect us in future.

It was ironic.
I got heartily fed up of people wearing lanyards criticising the children I was working with for not wearing masks ^ to protect the lanyard wearers.^

As far as I was concerned, it was their job to keep their distance.

At least 3 people I know well, via gym, work, choir choir and just socially, have no disabilities, hidden or not. They are just members of the you can’t tell me what to do group, and possibly they didn’t believe masks worked. Lots of those on SM.