The third place - vanishing?

It’s strange that nanna8, your restaurants and cafes are cheaper, but groceries are quite a bit more expensive there than in the UK. Maybe that is why Aussies eat out more.

Allira

Incidentally, why are they called Third Places?

Perhaps I've missed something.

An academic back when fairly recently....

He called our homes the "first place", our workplaces "second place" and social type venues a "third place" (ie ones where we can all meet up socially and our society is a poorer place if we don't have those meeting places).

Of course - for some people pubs/restaurants/cafes are also the "second place" (as they have jobs there).

Yes, the first place is home, the second the workplace and the third are places such as churches, cafes, bars, clubs, village halls, libraries, gyms, bookshops, parks, theatres, hairdressers, barber shops, nail bars, beauty salons etc.

The sociological theory is that these place are important for democracy, civic engagement, and a sense of place, an answer to loneliness, political polarisation and even climate resilience. (Wiki).

Common characteristics are said to be:

Open and inviting.
You don’t need an invitation or appointment, and you can come and go as you please.

Comfortable and informal.
You feel that you belong there.

Convenient.
It’s close enough to visit often, ideally right in your own neighbourhood.

Unpretentious.
Everyone is on the same level, there’s nothing fancy or fragile, and it’s not expensive.

There are regulars.
And often there’s a host who greets people as they arrive.

Conversation is the main activity.
Discussion, debate, and gossip are part of the mix.

Laughter is frequent.
The mood is light-hearted and playful. Joking and witty banter are encouraged.

Frankly, I think that notion of cafes, bars, pubs and restaurants is long gone other than perhaps in the smallest of communities.

The soap depictions of the Rovers Return and the Queen Vic are fictions. As my dear late husband used to say of Corrie, Emily Nugent would never go into the Rovers Return.

Take, for example, a modern day coffee chain where a lukewarm milky drink will set you back £4 to sit amongst strangers immersed in their mobile phones. It’s a far remove from 17th and 18th century coffee houses where men would meet to debate and do business.

And let me ask this. As a woman, I am happy to go into any pub on my own, buy a drink and chat to anyone who wants to - or am just as happy reading a book. But how many women would be comfortable doing that? If women don't feel comfortable doing this then a pub fails on those common characteristics. I would argue that it doesn't qualify as a third place.

The definition of a "third place" can indeed vary from community to community. Where I live now - there's a shop that is a "third place" - because everyone who knows the shop-owner goes in for a chat (as well as everyone else) and she introduces everyone to everyone else and it all gets very "social" sometimes. There's two other nearby shops that have picked up the idea to some extent too - and they can also get pretty "social". One can head to one of those shops (all near to each other) and re-emerge from all 3 of them a couple of hours later pretty easily.

Pubs are very variable - can be more or less "commercial" dependant on type and location and, if I want a drink or meal, somewhere outside my usual orbit = I'll go into one looking for that. Then there's "folk" type pubs and I can think of one that's too far from my house to get to (ie without a car) but it's a "drop-in and play or listen to music" and another one that is near that's also a "drop-in and chat to anyone going" type place. They are very variable. Then there's something like Sidmouth Folk Festival (there are other towns with similar events) and cue for bar-hopping around the town for music and chat in one and then in another etc.

I think pubs definitely qualify as third places, particularly where there is a regular clientele, they are open in the evenings when most other facilities aren’t, and are the only community facility in some places. It’s not a one size fits all, because the type of facility that suits one person wouldn’t suit another, as we all have different needs when it comes to socialising.

nanna8

Here you can buy alcohol at many cafes and/ or you can take your own wine to drink. The pubs tend to be quite big and they all have restaurants with them. We eat out a couple of times a week and it is quite expensive now but not quite as bad as over there. I think you need a new government - you can have ours if you like , especially our local state ones. Shockers.

The coffee/tea shop at the other end of my road has a wine and beer licence.

It’s good to be able to sit in the garden with a salad and chilled fizz in the summer.

This ⬆️

Yes, the first place is home, the second the workplace and the third are places such as churches, cafes, bars, clubs, village halls, libraries, gyms, bookshops, parks, theatres, hairdressers, barber shops, nail bars, beauty salons etc.

Thanks PaynesGray
The second is no longer an option!

midgey

But how many of us have actually been into a pub lately? I certainly haven’t.

Last night midgey for quiz, Fridays to catch up with friends, Sundays for meat draw, no food, it’s a wet pub.
My son, now our granddaughter had/have their first p/t jobs there whilst studying.
I’ve celebrated lives, babies and weddings, commiserated break ups and know three generations of some families.

This government couldn’t grow cress, never mind a small business.

Jaxjacky I know what you mean, and totally agree.

Ours started with p/t work (pot collecting at 16) and behind the bar at 18.

I am a child of publicans, my C were raised in and around their Grandparents pubs.

“How many actually go into pubs”…..
Whether one does or not, it’s nice to have the option.
I like to eat in pubs that serve good food - but it is all becoming too expensive and visits will become fewer for many no doubt.
They reckon the £10 a pint isnt far away!
That’ll be the killer.

Never heard of a ‘third place’ what is that then ? Oh just seen that’s been answered by someone upthread
Never ever heard anyone say that round here it’s a new one on me

I ve never really gone into pubs much, as a family when Iwas growing up we weren’t really pub goers so I guess it’s never really caught on with me not as an evening thing I d go in a Wetherspoons or similar for a meal if I was out in another town but not evening time pubs

Robin202 sorry to tell you the £10 pint is alive and kicking in up market bars and restaurants in the S E

It’s sad because our third places are disappearing right in front of us. Pubs, cafes, community spots used to keep people connected. With housing so expensive and small, we rely on these places even more. If they keep shutting, where are people meant to go.

Wyllow3

Maybe I live on a different planet but there haven't been noticeable closures round here.

here's a local pub part of a national chain with prices for Christmas lunch specifically and "Christmas Fayre" (I've given another city from the one I live in

Seems reasonable enough to me.

stagsheadlincoln.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Stags-Head-Xmas-Menus-1.pdf

Lots of moaning above, if you ask me. As per usual the DM. Read Paynes post before you moan anymore.

Prices of many things are rising and so as per "blame the government".

Look at the actual reasons for example for the raise in food prices

"Food prices are increasing in the UK due to a combination of factors,

including extreme weather impacting both domestic and foreign harvests, rising energy and labour costs,

global supply chain disruptions (like the war in Ukraine), and post-Brexit trade barriers that have increased import costs for certain goods

These domestic and international pressures mean that businesses can no longer absorb all the rising costs and are passing them on to consumers."

The web address seems to suggest that menu is from 2018 - Could not find a Christmas menu on the pub's website for this year

I just had a quick check on their Facebook page - nothing at all since September 2022. That doesn't look too promising then. As a lively busy pub would have some recent stuff up there and certainly something about Christmas.

I thought those prices were too good to be true.
We are eating out on Christmas Day but I’m not saying how much we are paying for many reasons.

Third Place? I had to look to find out what on earth this could be about…I immediately thought of ‘third place’ ASIN placing in a competition. Never heard of this term !
I go out to eat a few times a year with family or my U3a group ( tho that has died for now) o/w I will get takeaways or Uber eats.
But if restaurants die, will the takeout trade die too? I can count on the fingers of one hand how many times I’ve been to a proper pub - without eating - in the last 10 years.

dayvidg

Wyllow3

Maybe I live on a different planet but there haven't been noticeable closures round here.

here's a local pub part of a national chain with prices for Christmas lunch specifically and "Christmas Fayre" (I've given another city from the one I live in

Seems reasonable enough to me.

stagsheadlincoln.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Stags-Head-Xmas-Menus-1.pdf

Lots of moaning above, if you ask me. As per usual the DM. Read Paynes post before you moan anymore.

Prices of many things are rising and so as per "blame the government".

Look at the actual reasons for example for the raise in food prices

"Food prices are increasing in the UK due to a combination of factors,

including extreme weather impacting both domestic and foreign harvests, rising energy and labour costs,

global supply chain disruptions (like the war in Ukraine), and post-Brexit trade barriers that have increased import costs for certain goods

These domestic and international pressures mean that businesses can no longer absorb all the rising costs and are passing them on to consumers."

The web address seems to suggest that menu is from 2018 - Could not find a Christmas menu on the pub's website for this year

This is our local one, it is dated but giving you the full web page will reveal where I live, you'll see the prices clearly.

mystagshead.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/STAG-Festive-Menu-2025.pdf

I'd describe the pub as "upmarket local" but not "Gastro", after comparing it with other local (Yorkshire/Derbyshire/Humberside) prices

BlueBelle

Never heard of a ‘third place’ what is that then ? Oh just seen that’s been answered by someone upthread
Never ever heard anyone say that round here it’s a new one on me

I ve never really gone into pubs much, as a family when Iwas growing up we weren’t really pub goers so I guess it’s never really caught on with me not as an evening thing I d go in a Wetherspoons or similar for a meal if I was out in another town but not evening time pubs

It's not just pubs, apparently.

Any Third Place is a Second Place for me since I retired.

You can’t beat those old British pubs, they are wonderful and I hope they remain for ever. Exposed beams and a low roof and all those lovely horse brasses around. Am I living in the past or are they still around ? Wish it wasn’t such a long long way for us to travel to.

Strange I ve never ever heard the term around my area perhaps it’s a city based thing

They are very much still around as originals, certainly around the North of England and in the countryside, but there are some awful "Faux ye olde pubs" too.

Pubs have been closing for a long time.
I am aware of some which are busy, with regular customers and events, but there is a danger of those who visit infrequently complaining that they are not there when they do want them.
It is the same situation as with High Street shopping: it is not unknown for a person decrying the demise of independent shops to acknowledge that their purchases from these amount to... a couple of times a year.