The Women's Institute is to revert to being an Institute for Women

My boss is a trans woman who has fully transitioned and calls herself a woman . She’s married to a man and has children from when she was male. She has given talks to a local WI about her life. I’m not sure if she’s a member .
She’s not bolshy or agressive about her situation , she just wants to get on with her life .

Mollygo not entirely sure what you mean by ‘announce his situation’ - my friend made all aware of her background / history if that’s what you mean. Her ex RAF colleagues all accept her as well. I find your attitude re ‘all the people who all know trans’ insulting, as if I am making this up, I assure you I am not.

I never imagined you were making it up. If you’ve been on GN long enough you will have come across posts about trans friends, relatives, co-workers, choir members, etc.

If your friend shared all the medical details you mentioned, he was obviously aware that he was still a man.
How nice a man is has nothing to do with it.

Jackiest

GoodAfternoonTea

@ Doodledog - In many (not all) mixed-sex groups men dominate, as many women have been socialised to defer to them, and to behave differently in 'mixed company'.

This is so true. I have been to see a male nutritionist and in our 3/4 hour session he spoke for most of the time. An electrician came to sort out something in our house and he spoke the whole time to my husband. They introduce a different dynamic.

Yes I can think of some men that dominate the conversation I can also think of some women that do. There are also men that are timid and quiet also some women. We should not stereotype people by their gender.

I was very careful not to stereotype by sex. Maybe it's possible to do so by gender, but I don't really understand what that is in any sort of objective sense, so I couldn't say. I didn't do it though - I was talking about men and women, ie sex differences.

Ilovedogs, why wouldn't you be 'allowed' to say moon?

It is interesting that the WI don't allow women who have 'transitioned' to men to be members. As ever, it's all about letting men have their own way.

Doodledog

*Ilovedogs*, why wouldn't you be 'allowed' to say moon?

It is interesting that the WI don't allow women who have 'transitioned' to men to be members. As ever, it's all about letting men have their own way.

Yes I saw that too. But they will admit non-binary people who 'live as women' without ever defining what 'living as a woman' entails. I really wish they would expand on it as I'd love to know if I'm 'womaning' properly.

What they could do now, if they are really bothered about the views of their membership, is to hold a ballot on whether to change the name of the organisation to something more general.

Hi Rosie51, I was just taking the micky out of all the banned words these days. You never know, one
day it could be deemed offensive to some ninny, somewhere. ☺

Ilovecheese

What they could do now, if they are really bothered about the views of their membership, is to hold a ballot on whether to change the name of the organisation to something more general.

I think they's have to relaunch completely if they did that. It has been the WI since 1915 or so. Making the whole thing unisex is about far more than changing the name.

They could do that though, they are entirely free to create a mixed sex organisation, they just can't pretend they are single sex whilst including men.
What an absolutely hurtful thing it was for people to pretend to transwomen that they were women.

I'm no longer a member of the WI but I hope it remains biological women only. The name change sounds clumsy too.
Women need these places without men.

My GM belonged to a number of women only organisations. The Women's Guild, WI and Mothers Union. I don't think there are so many women only groups now so it would be a bad day for women if WI was open to men and women.

GoodAfternoonTea

*@ Doodledog - In many (not all) mixed-sex groups men dominate, as many women have been socialised to defer to them, and to behave differently in 'mixed company'. *

This is so true. I have been to see a male nutritionist and in our 3/4 hour session he spoke for most of the time. An electrician came to sort out something in our house and he spoke the whole time to my husband. They introduce a different dynamic.

Nobody ever socialised me, nor any of my friends to defer to men. I went to an all girls school and both I and my closest friend went into predominantly male professions. We were both quite capable of making ourselves heard in a male environment. However that was a long time ago.

In the last 30 years I have belonged to a number of groups where women and men share responsibility and within the groups I have seen no signs of male dominance.

Of course, now and again you do see examples of individuals acting or making inappropriate assumptions, but I have noticed, such men are as likely to be put in their place by another man as by any woman present.

I'm a W.I. member and it wouldn't bother me in the least if a "trans" woman joined our group. However this isn't why I'm responding on this thread; I'm raising what I see as a related issue, which may be relevant. (Apologies if I don't phrase the following well, but hopefully GNs will get the gist of it.)
What intrigues me, is how a W.I. group will necessarily KNOW whether someone applying to join, was "born female" or not. Sometimes it might seem obvious when a "trans woman" is applying, but surely this isn't always the case. (Also I've met women who I know were born female but who are quite "male looking".) Will every woman seeking to join, have to state categorically that they're "not trans"? Or will this question be asked only if the membership secretary isnt sure? If so, I can see red faces all around - whether this question is asked of either a "natural born" woman or a "trans woman". I wonder whether "guidelines" for this may be issued by the W.I? And what those guidelines might say!

My dear cousin was a trans woman, she lived happily for many years after her transition, she and I were alike in looks, quite a few people thought we were sisters.
All her paperwork was official, including NI number, NHS changes, Tax etc, she was well respected at her work.

Sadly she died and at her funeral there were several of her Trans friends in attendance. You would have No idea they had transition. They did not look like drag queens, they just looked like normal women. Let's face it we all come in all shapes and sizes.
As a WI member, I think this will be difficult.

M0nica

GoodAfternoonTea

@ Doodledog - In many (not all) mixed-sex groups men dominate, as many women have been socialised to defer to them, and to behave differently in 'mixed company'.

This is so true. I have been to see a male nutritionist and in our 3/4 hour session he spoke for most of the time. An electrician came to sort out something in our house and he spoke the whole time to my husband. They introduce a different dynamic.

Nobody ever socialised me, nor any of my friends to defer to men. I went to an all girls school and both I and my closest friend went into predominantly male professions. We were both quite capable of making ourselves heard in a male environment. However that was a long time ago.

In the last 30 years I have belonged to a number of groups where women and men share responsibility and within the groups I have seen no signs of male dominance.

Of course, now and again you do see examples of individuals acting or making inappropriate assumptions, but I have noticed, such men are as likely to be put in their place by another man as by any woman present.

Well, aren't you the lucky one?! This has not been my experience nor that of female friends. At OUR U3A men dominate in the book club and at meetings and completely change the dynamic, and the same can be said at our yacht club and also our golf club. They are just bigger, louder, and more opinionated. Many have been in leading professions like bankers, surgeons, and lawyers and still carry on their dominant roles in retirement.

Yes the falsification of documents was a massive mistake, as I say those who pretended men were women were not being kind.

As a member of the WI and in response to Doodledog any transwomen in the WI will be asked to leave by April 2026.

The WI intend to start some offshoot groups that include transwomen.

The WI did not allow a vote by all the members on this subject.

The announcement by one of the Executives of the WI yesterday, was imo mealy mouthed, apologetic and demeaning to the true spirit of the Women’s Institute.

Professor Robert Winston said ‘You can add parts to the body and remove them, but you can’t change the biology of a human being’. That is good enough for me.

M0nica

GoodAfternoonTea

@ Doodledog - In many (not all) mixed-sex groups men dominate, as many women have been socialised to defer to them, and to behave differently in 'mixed company'.

This is so true. I have been to see a male nutritionist and in our 3/4 hour session he spoke for most of the time. An electrician came to sort out something in our house and he spoke the whole time to my husband. They introduce a different dynamic.

Nobody ever socialised me, nor any of my friends to defer to men. I went to an all girls school and both I and my closest friend went into predominantly male professions. We were both quite capable of making ourselves heard in a male environment. However that was a long time ago.

In the last 30 years I have belonged to a number of groups where women and men share responsibility and within the groups I have seen no signs of male dominance.

Of course, now and again you do see examples of individuals acting or making inappropriate assumptions, but I have noticed, such men are as likely to be put in their place by another man as by any woman present.

Again, this is why I said 'many (not all)', and that 'many' women have been socialised to defer to men, and to behave differently in mixed company. I carefully did not generalise, or suggest that all women or all men do anything.

Thanks for the info NanKate. I did think that you would be pleased by the news.

Yes, Galaxy. Of course they can relaunch as mixed sex, but it won't be the Women's Institute if they do. I wonder how many transwomen would want to belong to a unisex group though. Or how many women who have been used to the WI being for women.

Crikey - Institute for Women sounds like a prison.

Davida1968
Same points as are always raised.

You’ve missed the posters with tall, muscular, deep voiced women friends.
Or the you can’t tell posts.

Re the how can you tell?
I don’t look at whether a person is male or female unless I have cause to do so.

I’ve frequently been told on GN that trans lived unnoticed in the past, and I can well believe that.

The problem is that the actions of the few TW have caused problems not only for women (AHF) but for all trans.
e.g.
- the cheating in sport, depriving females of awards they’ve worked for,

- the appointment of males like Mridul Wadhwa, to a female post

- the violence threatened by TW to anyone who dared to say you can’t change sex

-the demand to be placed in a female prison even when the TW is convicted of rape

-the behaviour of TW demanding to be placed in female mental health wards often causing further trauma to the females there and threatening the nurses with punishment for being transphobic

-the demand to access female safe spaces whilst still being demonstrably male

etc.

Maybe we should rely on males having integrity and being honest, i.e. if you’re male, you don't go to join a women’s group.

integrity involves being truthful and trustworthy,

Do you think that would work?

I read posts saying that TW were accepted by everyone in the group.
If you’re in that situation and say that you’re not happy about it, you’re likely to be condemned as transphobic, told to “be kind” or even worse, find yourself ostracised because people would prefer to support a male.

TW are constantly going on about unkindness to their minority group.

But even if a majority were to accept TW into the group, doesn’t that mean that ignoring the wishes/feelings of the minority of women who don’t want to accept males into the group is equally if not more unkind

How will you be able to KNOW ,*Davida*?

If nobody can tell that someone is a transwoman they’ll just turn up, nobody will know and really it won’t be an issue because nobody will know.

What this ruling and the WIs (grudging) acceptance of the law will do, is protect women from those aggressive males who have sought to disrupt and eliminate places for women by pretending they want to be women, whilst retaining all their male attitudes towards females and all their domineering male privilege.

Believe me the women there will be able to KNOW who they are.

Lathyrus3

How will you be able to KNOW ,*Davida*?

If nobody can tell that someone is a transwoman they’ll just turn up, nobody will know and really it won’t be an issue because nobody will know.

What this ruling and the WIs (grudging) acceptance of the law will do, is protect women from those aggressive males who have sought to disrupt and eliminate places for women by pretending they want to be women, whilst retaining all their male attitudes towards females and all their domineering male privilege.

Believe me the women there will be able to KNOW who they are.

Agree, Lathyrus.

I can't be certain of course, but am willing to bet that the majority of members wouldn't care if Hayley from Corrie turned up to a talk about community policing, but would object to India Willoughby loudly insisting on using the Ladies because it is there and using a unisex one is not performative enough, or Lia Thomas giving a lecture on being a winner in women's swimming.

Hayley would be fine in the WI, she was/is a woman

The actress was, but the character was trans, as was the advisor to the programme.

Yes the conversations would have been very different if Hayley had been played by a man, there was some interesting strategising going on even back then in my view.