Tommy Robinson’s ‘put Christ back into Christmas’ message"

And all shall be well and
All manner of thing shall be well
When the tongues of flame are in-folded
Into the crowned knot of fire
And the fire and the rose are one.

Please check your accuracy when quoting.

easybee - if I am quoting the last section of the last part of the 4 quartets only, I generally miss out the

"When the tongues of flame are in-folded
Into the crowned knot of fire
And the fire and the rose are one."

As they refer to elements of the symbolism used in the whole of the 4 Quartets which the listener/reader cannot be aware of when just hearing the end.

So I finish the quote with

*And all shall be well
All manner of thing shall be well*

It is a famous quote from the nun and anchoress Mother Julien of Norwich and I feel a more suitable ending to the section that precedes it as in

A condition of complete simplicity
(*Costing not less than everything*)

(ps, are there rules about having to quote whole poems in GN? 🧐

anyway, its one of the top poems ever written imo.

It was your use of ‘things’ rather than ‘thing’ that eazybee was criticising.

What an eye opener this thread has been…

Oh well, I did get to explain dropping the last lines. It is a wonderful poem, but only one I've appreciated when I've got older.

At the conclusion of my words about my husband at his funeral, I said and all shall be well, all is well.

The service was led by a close friend who happens to be a vicar. She’s an inspirational person, whose faith shines. I’m relieved she is more accepting of non perfect examples of people who identify as Christian’s than some posters

Wyllow3

Oreo

I don’t know what Quakers believe other than being rather silent in meetings and refusing to fight in any army even to protect their own country.Am sure there must be more.
Believing that Christ rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven is at the core of Christianity isn’t it.Smileless2012 seems to know a lot about her faith from this thread and others, so much so that I did wonder if she were a Vicar.Quakers, Buddhists, and anyone else including Humanists try to live a good life but it doesn’t make them a Christian.

This is incorrect information, Oreo Quakers have and do take up arms in war time. Our peace testimony is very complex what was done at the end of WW2

" Quakers, specifically their relief organizations American Friends Service Committee (AFSC) and Friends Service Council (FSC), jointly received the 1947 Nobel Peace Prize for their extensive humanitarian work during and after World War II, providing aid to victims, refugees, and prisoners of war across Europe and Asia, recognising their long history of peace activism and service.

Please check your facts before alleging things.

Did they really take up arms?🤔 I thought it was more that if they did things it was being a stretcher bearer and similar, as you say, doing humanitarian sort of work.That isn’t fighting for your country is it, however worthy the work done.

It doesn’t bother me, but I prefer to know the truth.

Interesting though these posts have been, I'm still wondering what putting "Christ back into Christmas" actually means to Tommy Robinson and how many British people will respond to his "invitation".
One of the last times I was in Anglican church was for the christening of a friend's two children. The local, extremely popular primary school was CofE and had very strict rules regarding admission criteria which included church attendance and membership of the church. The vicar was rather hostile to the row of "visitors" to his church, had chosen rather obscure hymns and actually criticised the uncertain mumbles coming from some of the congregation. It was a thoroughly unpleasant experience. Hopefully this particular vicar is not representative but as a visitor to this church I was definitely made to feel like an "outsider".

I always understood that the Ten Commandments applied equally to Christians and Jews, Oreo.

I’ve always found no. 5 difficult to reconcile with the way humans have lived over several thousand years, but castigating those who attempt to observe it does seem odd in any one who professes either faith.

foxie, one of my vicar friends was responding to criticism of people who come to Church from birth to year seven in order to get places at our excellent C of E high school, then attendance dips. He said if we haven’t enthused them to stay with us, we need to look to ourselves.

My experience of the Church of England in our area has been of friendly inclusivity

Without the stretcher-bearers and other auxiliary workers, the soldiers doing the actual fighting and killing of the enemy (and getting killed or dying of their injuries) would have had some agonising waits - any of which would have been too long to save them.

Plenty of those who refused to kill were killed themselves as they went unarmed through enemy fire to succour the wounded and bring out the dead. Refusing to take lives is not cowardice, it is obeying a primary law.

MaizieD

I always understood that the Ten Commandments applied equally to Christians and Jews, Oreo.

I’ve always found no. 5 difficult to reconcile with the way humans have lived over several thousand years, but castigating those who attempt to observe it does seem odd in any one who professes either faith.

It sounds more like nationalism speaking than religion to me. The two are not identical.

For Christian’s Christ has never left Christmas, so no need to put him back.

In my opinion this is just a publicity stunt!

In my opinion this is just a publicity stunt that's my opinion too GG.

Without doubt GrannyGravy and one designed to whip up fear and hatred of Muslims

I think TR is in contact with political groups who want a strong resurgence in Christianity as a focus for the West. If TR is the catalyst for this, so be it. Advance UK is clearly one such group. GG13.

To be a Christian prohibits hatred of other faiths. Christianity has long stopped killing unbelievers to my knowledge. Iam64

Tell that to Trump's "Christian" administration. I don't think they received the memo, it missed a lot of "Christians" in this country too.

ronib

To be a Christian prohibits hatred of other faiths. Christianity has long stopped killing unbelievers to my knowledge. Iam64

I think you need to have a quiet word with J. D. Vance. His brand of Christian Nationalism seems to include a lot of rather unpleasant attitudes which, IMO, borders on white supremacy. This is the branch of Christianity which Tommy Robinson and Advance UK seem to espouse. Do we really want that in the UK? Well some might but I certainly don't!

I've only seen this message, given by a young black woman from London. Please stop trying to tar it as far right. What right have you all to judge, "Let him without sin, throw the first stone" (John 8:7). So many stories, of winter trees, holiday jumpers, all to appease some minorities, by some idiot stores/ councils/schools, its Christmas, do they really care, my Indian neighbour doesn't, and was the first to put up his christmas lights. Why all the fuss about people returning to Church, are all of you that are name calling, mind readers. Jesus's loves all right or left, or are you saying he should only love the lefties. Are vicars going to question those who return, and ban the right leaning. If so Jesus's teachings fell on deaf ears. Happy Christmas.

Isn’t JD Vance a mainstream Catholic? His views are that of the Catholic community so maybe the Pope is the right person to give guidance? Perhaps he will? foxie48
Given the menu board, Ben Habib doesn’t seem so bad but it’s very early days.

I am approaching this issue as a non- Christian, so I have no belief in Jesus welcoming all comers - it means nothing to me, but I am approaching the issue from a purely political perspective, whereby I consider TR’s actions exactly the same as Trumps and other of like ilk. They use “god” as a rallying point for their white supremacy, racism and anti-semitism. At present Islamaphobia is their message - not long ago it was anti-semtism and the “black hoards”

All extremely unpleasant.

I feel sorry for the Christian church leaders who have to somehow deal with this, although like the population as a whole I have no doubt that there are church leaders who support the more evangelical side of the church and believe every soul is worth saving. 🙄

The pope made his opinion pretty clear to Vance I think.

It’s a touch ironic that the Pope in the Vatican City is very cosseted from the consequences of his own teachings. The Vatican City does not accept migrants to my knowledge.
Also Jesus wasn’t on earth at a time of mass migration and huge population numbers. His time doesn’t correspond to ours in many ways.

The belief that all souls are worth saving is a core tenet of Christianity WW.