Tommy Robinson’s ‘put Christ back into Christmas’ message"

There are indeed Christians all over the world of different cultures and colours. (I've been looking up some wonderful songs of praise from all over the world, including praise songs from the wonderful mixed race choirs of South Africa post- apartheid in the original languages of those peoples.

What I am wrestling with Smileless is the concept that to be a Christian they have to agree with your version of what it means to be Christian, ie the nicene creed of virgin birth and a physical resurrection (as opposed to these being strong and everlasting symbolic not literal interpretations of the significant birth of Jesus and the idea of life after death still being in the body in a place called heaven.

The symbolic interpretations are as powerful and as meaningful as literal ones in worshippers minds, and of church leaders who see a symbolic interpretation as being just as valid - and know and accept that within their churches or other places of worship

"where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them"

Is it arrogance, or a simple assertion of equality amongst those seeking a spiritual life, to say, where the precepts that Jesus stood for are practiced, there there is a full spiritual experience?

anyway, I shall share this wonderful top SA choir - one of so many I have found in my U tube journeys looking at Christianity and other worship traditions from around the world

I guarantee most here will adore this song?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXcttZVhf0s&list=RDaXcttZVhf0s&start_radio=1

It isn't my version Wyllow.

I accept that yours, is yours, without reservations

I may and have put conceptual and historical reasons forward to call into question the God given claims of the Nicene creed, but in our hearts:

as I say, I accept you are you are, without reservations, for we all come from different places, still wishing goodwill:

But can you accept my faith, and that of other Christians, or are you insisting we cannot be Christians

fancythat

^false, toxic premise that British identity equals Christian identity equals white European identity^

Of course British identity equals Christian identity.
That doesnt have to be white!

I assume there must be many more millions of non-white Christians in the world than white ones.

I imagine Heaven to be filled with every nation on earth.

Wasn't it under 50% identifying as Christian in the last census? I'm sure it was low any way.

I've resisted posting on this thread so far- mostly because not wanting to give airspace to TR. Neither do I have any expertise regarding religious matters.

I am aware from various articles in the media that The CofE has spoken out as quoted earlier: “Any co-opting or corrupting of the Christian faith to exclude others is unacceptable, and we are gravely concerned about the use of Christian symbols and rhetoric to apparently justify racism and anti-migrant rhetoric,” Thats resonates with me as I feel all religions should be inclusive and should not be racist or anti immigrant.

But I just had to thank Wyllow3 for her link of Pretoria University Choir. So beautiful and so uplifting. So wonderful also to see and hear a South African diverse choir sing this together- harmony indeed! 👏👏

I have already stated what I believe Wyllow, several times.

I'm not clear, Smileless, as so many of the post are what I'd call the intellectual side of the veracity of various interpretations of the bible and the origins of the creed, I've genuinely lost the thread of what you really feel on this question.

I'll give you a spot of background that might help you see why I asked. As you know I'm a Quaker, and most UK Quakers do not believe in the Creed. We believe "there is that of god in everyone" and we talk of trying to 'Live in the Light" of the compassionate light that Jesus himself taught.

However Kenyan Quakers, and there are many, mostly do believe not so much in the creed as such, but do believe in the virgin birth and the resurrection.

But we exist together in harmony.

theworriedwell

fancythat

false, toxic premise that British identity equals Christian identity equals white European identity

Of course British identity equals Christian identity.
That doesnt have to be white!

I assume there must be many more millions of non-white Christians in the world than white ones.

I imagine Heaven to be filled with every nation on earth.

Wasn't it under 50% identifying as Christian in the last census? I'm sure it was low any way.

It is up to God how long He considers a Country to be Christian.

As an atheist I have found this thread fascinating. But I'm not sure if Britain can be called Christian, not because of other faiths, but because so few actually follow what I understand to be the teachings of Jesus Christ. Surely that is what is important not the nit picking over theology.

That does indeed matter, but it's not nit picking, Graceless, for theologies are actually ideologies
If your "theology" suggests you are actually active (not just talk) on climate change, or peace, on homelessness, poverty, inclusive in your beliefs (imo) and so on, then its a positive force in our society not just a talking shop.

Graceless

As an atheist I have found this thread fascinating. But I'm not sure if Britain can be called Christian, not because of other faiths, but because so few actually follow what I understand to be the teachings of Jesus Christ. Surely that is what is important not the nit picking over theology.

I see what you’re saying but how does anyone know that a lot of people aren’t following the teachings of Jesus Christ?Or at least trying to.

fancythat so you know if God considers Britain a Christian country. I don't think that is normally how it's defined.

Coming back to the opening post the idea that Tommy Robinson will be instrumental in bringing “a new Christian revival in the UK – a moment to reclaim and celebrate our heritage, culture and Christian identity” is akin to believing a butcher would espouse the benefits of a meat free diet. They would both need to undergo a massive change in their beliefs and purpose. tbh I think a butcher would be a better bet for success! I just wonder how much £££ TR is getting to fund this latest enterprise from those who think a Christian Nationalist movement might aid Russian and/or American interests. It's certainly not in British interests!

Coming back to the opening post the idea that Tommy Robinson will be instrumental in bringing “a new Christian revival in the UK
,
Doubtful. But I wouldnt write him off, personally.

I don’t think I can agree with you foxie48. Before TR hit the evangelical circuit, I think there was a decline in mainstream CofE participation. Evangelicals seem to be more in tune with growing the faith, in the UK at least.

TR did comment to the not very large crowd singing carols today that we need to grow Christianity but the CofE don’t want us. So he encouraged finding an alternative evangelical community church who would accept and want new believers.

This struck me as an own goal by the CofE if indeed it won’t accept and welcome all new believers to their established faith community! The numbers were declining I understand so why not welcome new voices?

I am an atheist but I think in the last couple of years I have begun to think that when religion declines in society it may be a bad thing. I think people then treat other things ( such as politics) as a religion, and that tends to be a bad thing.

"In emails sent to his supporters ahead of his December 2025 carol service, Tommy Robinson presented the event as a "rally" intended to protest against "mass migration and cultural erosion"
. This messaging contrasted sharply with the official publicity which stated the event was "not about politics, immigration, or other groups" but "about Jesus Christ - fully and completely"
AI generated but substantiated in other media sources.

Sounds like Christian Nationalism to me Ronib not Evangelical Christianity which is strongly supported by a variety of minority ethnic groups.

TR’s singers on stage were clearly from an ethnic group.

I looked at the C of E Evangelical lists of commitments and beliefs.
There are very strong anti-racism statements and also care for our climate and our worlds natural resources.

I don't think these would be a good match for TR.

TR seems to have had a conversion to following Jesus, having been a Catholic as a boy. His conversion seems real to me.
The CofE doesn’t seem to be in the same ballpark in terms of spiritual growth. It’s become quite left wing?

Some points from the previous posts.

C of E - in no way do I know about every church. And from the ones I know, each differs somewhat from the next one.
But broadly speaking, possibly left leaning.

TR - he could set up his own Church.
I wouldnt be at all surprised if that is the road he takes.
Whether that be under an umbrella of some church or other, and which denomination I wouldnt know.
There are many many churches nowadays in the Uk
Quite often there are say 3 "sister" churches. Working independently but as a group.

Evangelical Christianity which is strongly supported by a variety of minority ethnic groups

Can you explain this a bit more please?

Not sure if you meant that Evangelical Christianity is not supported by "majority"[dont think I like that term, but cant think which other way to word it] "ethnic"[again, dont like that word] groups?
As far as I can see,and from what little I know, that is not the case.

Well I hope you are right,Ronib but his emails to supporters would suggest otherwise. I look forward to seeing evidence of his love and charity towards all. Fwiw, having Black Gospel singers on stage with him doesn't make Unite the kingdom an anti racist movement anymore than starting an opinion with " some of my friends are black but" .

Following on from some of what I have written

Evangelical Alliance has 3300 churches in the Uk.
My guess, is that if TR carries on with what he has started, he will set one up within that organisation.
I could be wrong.
He could go totally independently? Or not set one up at all.
Personally I doubt he would go with Church of England.

Church of Emgland currently, from what I know can be high church[dying on their feet from what little I know], low church[not doing great but plodding on] and evangelical[or part evangelical][doing best of all by quite some way].