Tommy Robinson’s ‘put Christ back into Christmas’ message"

Hmm

I invite you to go back over time in the Christian church, then tell me that nothing has changed.

I agree Maizie.

Great post DAR .

I think that Mr Yaxley Lennon is a thug, based on his previous convictions and his current rhetoric.
However, if he arrived at the door of the church I attend, I would, of course, welcome him.
It is God's church, not mine.
He might enjoy the sermons and the camaraderie of my fellow worshippers.

Iam64

ronib, many people would like all faith schools replaced by secular state schools to ensure children aren’t indoctrinated, having a faith imposed on them, I see the arguments as having benefits.
Im also aware of the many benefits of faith schools. Our local C of E high school selects based on Personal education plan need and Church attendance. The sixth form selects on gcse results. The Muslim community are well represented there because of the education provided. Our C of E and Catholic primary schools sought after by Muslim parents who like the pastoral care and behaviour management. Contrary to what some believe, they fully participate in a Christian religious festivals and schools celebrate Divali, Eid and more

Nothing wrong with teaching caring and loving and tolerance, which many faiths do. The best of any faiths reflects virtues such as these. Not just religious faiths, humanist based beliefs do too.

It seems to me this works towards a caring and supportive society. Which is the sort of society we, hopefully, would aspire to.

Nothing has changed WW.

Iam64

ronib, many people would like all faith schools replaced by secular state schools to ensure children aren’t indoctrinated, having a faith imposed on them, I see the arguments as having benefits.
Im also aware of the many benefits of faith schools. Our local C of E high school selects based on Personal education plan need and Church attendance. The sixth form selects on gcse results. The Muslim community are well represented there because of the education provided. Our C of E and Catholic primary schools sought after by Muslim parents who like the pastoral care and behaviour management. Contrary to what some believe, they fully participate in a Christian religious festivals and schools celebrate Divali, Eid and more

I'm not sure why it would make any difference Iam. I'm sure we could look at other countries but I know Australia doesn't have an established church but about 30% of their schools overall are affiliated with a religion.

eazybee

Oh dear me.
Scribes and Pharisees?

And shibboleths.

Smileless2012

Nothing has changed WW.

Blimey I can name a few off the top.

Belief in the second coming,
Beliefs in Christian superiority, that allowed stuff like slavery, women’s oppression, and beating children.
Belief in hell/purgatory.
Women’s roll, divorce, birth control,
Virgin birth
Literal interpretation of the bible
The rejection of Rome and the pope as gods representative in earth.
The enlightenment brought rejection of myths like the creation,

There has been so much change!

There is continual change.

Are you suggesting that Christians are shibboleths Elegran, believers in something that is long standing but now outmoded and no longer important?

If so that would be very offensive. We are all entitled to have a faith or not, without being ridiculed.

Just watching a clip on the television and Alf Garnet 😊 Nothing new under the sun is there! He was an early reform/ Farage/Robinson.

I should have said that nothing has changed in terms of the Christian faith WW.

You're right of course that the institution of the church has seen many changes and no doubt there will be others but Christianity is based on the belief of Jesus as the Son of God, made man through the immaculate conception/virgin birth and His resurrection.

That has never changed.

MaizieD

Allira

MaizieD

Galaxy

But by the second post we have moved on to Reform voters.

I don’t think that you are naive enough to believe that followers of Yaxley Lennon aren’t Reform voters.

And why would that be, exactly?

Robinson Yaxley Lennon would surely expect them to vote for Advance UK.

Of course. Silly me.

Advance UK is going to field a candidate in every UK constituency...

And if it doesn't, Y-L followers are gong to vote for the Green party...

I expect the Greens are really excited about that!!

Whitewavemark2

Smileless2012

Nothing has changed WW.

Blimey I can name a few off the top.

Belief in the second coming,
Beliefs in Christian superiority, that allowed stuff like slavery, women’s oppression, and beating children.
Belief in hell/purgatory.
Women’s roll, divorce, birth control,
Virgin birth
Literal interpretation of the bible
The rejection of Rome and the pope as gods representative in earth.
The enlightenment brought rejection of myths like the creation,

There has been so much change!

There is continual change.

Someone mentioned the Nicene Creed as the foundation of Christian belief earlier so I checked what it says (my recollection of it being somewhat hazy)

It doesn't mention any of the things in your list, Wwmk2. Its only possible correlation to your list is the line He spoke through the prophets. To whom can be ascribed nearly all of your list (apart from the second coming?).

How reliable are 'the prophets' ?

Smileless2012

I don't agree that the fundamental belief of the Christian church has changed over the last 2000 plus years WW. My fundamental belief never has either.

Agreed.

The Bible does not change.

Nothing at all about God, Jesus, Holy Spirit and the Bible is changeable.

If church leaders of any church building are not following the Bible, ditch the church and it's leader. Not the Bible.

Smileless2012

I should have said that nothing has changed in terms of the Christian faith WW.

You're right of course that the institution of the church has seen many changes and no doubt there will be others but Christianity is based on the belief of Jesus as the Son of God, made man through the immaculate conception/virgin birth and His resurrection.

That has never changed.

Agreed.

All the Bible, fancythat or just the New Testament?

The New Testament is the fulfilment of the Old Testament Maizie.

mum2three

Does everything have to be spelled out for you? Trying to get people back into church is a response to the spread of Islam in Britain. So many British people have lost their sense of identity. Being Christian is part of that identity.
The Winter festival has been celebrated for thousands of years, it is not a recent event. However, it is a good time for people to be reminded of why we call it Christmas.
Those who have studied the life of Jesus will know that he was a communist. His organisation lived in communities similar to a kibbutz.

His organisation lived in communities similar to a kibbutz.

Jesus lived with his family but was an itinerant preacher and stayed with various people on his travels.
At least some of his disciples were married; Jesus lived for a time with Peter and Peter's wife and family.

Smileless2012

The New Testament is the fulfilment of the Old Testament Maizie.

Agreed.

I think I will perhaps just let you talk Smileless2012!

No don't do that fancythat, it was you who quite rightly posted If church leaders of any church building are not following the Bible, ditch the church and its leader. Not the Bible.

Smileless2012

The New Testament is the fulfilment of the Old Testament Maizie.

I know that.

But is what it says part of Christian teaching?

Or does Christian teaching just stick with the New Testament and the Epistles?

This is silly.

The bible is full of contradictions.

The Bible as it is generally known today was primarily finalised in the late 4th century AD, when church councils formally affirmed the 66 books that constitute the modern Protestant Bible. They missed out some gospels that didn't fit with the ideologies of the time.

The earliest of the 4 gospels is calculated to have been written in 70AD, ie 70 years after Jesus's death. They were named done by word of mouth, and all manner of suppositions were made: no one who wrote a gospel was a witness or even alive in Jesus's time.

Christian theology, like all other religions, has been interpreted and re-interpreted over time and used or misused (think of the Inquisition) in both good and horrific ways.

There is no "Word given by Jesus' as such" There are stories and accounts that draw on memories of his life.

It's not possible to say, "you either follow the bible or not" as there is no single interpretation. In the USA its even clearer - there are many different interpretations of the Bible, including creationism, which forces Genesis literally upon us,

and of course, in that scenario, Eve, as woman, was the figure who represented "original sin"

Fortunately, as outlined above, Christian doctrine has changed greatly over the years. Belief systems that made sense to a 14c person do not anymore, and thank goodness it is so!

So - I repeat, go get back to the O/P:

a Tommy Robinson agenda is based on nothing but some borrowed ideologies from some US churches, which have more to do with a worship of Trump than any deep and heartfelt acceptance of Jesus as a figure who preached compassionate love, equality, and forgiveness.

Whitewavemark2

Smileless2012

Nothing has changed WW.

Blimey I can name a few off the top.

Belief in the second coming,
Beliefs in Christian superiority, that allowed stuff like slavery, women’s oppression, and beating children.
Belief in hell/purgatory.
Women’s roll, divorce, birth control,
Virgin birth
Literal interpretation of the bible
The rejection of Rome and the pope as gods representative in earth.
The enlightenment brought rejection of myths like the creation,

There has been so much change!

There is continual change.

Just a quick look at your list Whitewave tells us that some were simply oppressive practices that were not core Christian beliefs; they were social norms and power structures that people justified using a twisted Christianity - just as is happening in America now and how some want it to be seen here.

Galaxy

Do people understand that five minutes ago being right wing was a perfectly normal thing to be. Being on the left does not mean you are necessarily a good person.

At last someone with common sense, I sometimes despair at some of the views from GNetters. You people who always have to tell us Tommy Robinson’s real name, you do realise that Zach Polanski isn’t his real name either? What on earth does it matter?

You people who always have to tell us Tommy Robinson’s real name

Yes. That always makes me laugh.
Like we don’t know his real name.
It’s been public knowledge for about 20 years