Tommy Robinson’s ‘put Christ back into Christmas’ message"

I seem to have made an error of judgement theworriedwell. I thought you were open to a sensible exchange of views and arguments but it seems that you're not.

Smileless2012

If you want to know anything about Polycarp Wyllow there's plenty of information available on Google.

Of course Jesus was "born of a woman" and in reference of only two of the gospels referring to a virgin birth, all four are included in the Christian Biblical Canon; absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, the New Testament is the fulfilment of the Old. Isiah chap. 7 v 14 says "Behold a virgin shall be with child and bear a son and shall call his name Emanuel".

Well she called him Jesus, I think an angel told her the name to use.

Smileless2012

And you don't think he would because....

He never met her let alone did a medical exam.

If you want to know anything about Polycarp Wyllow there's plenty of information available on Google.

Of course Jesus was "born of a woman" and in reference of only two of the gospels referring to a virgin birth, all four are included in the Christian Biblical Canon; absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, the New Testament is the fulfilment of the Old. Isiah chap. 7 v 14 says "Behold a virgin shall be with child and bear a son and shall call his name Emanuel".

Far, far more important than Polycarp (as in who?)
is the following:

Paul the Apostle The letters of Paul (the earliest New Testament writings) do not mention a virgin birth. He describes Jesus as "born of a woman," which later interpreters take to imply a belief in his pre-existence and incarnation, but his writings contain no explicit reference to a miraculous conception, leading some scholars to argue he was unaware of the tradition

The Gospel of Mark is the earliest canonical Gospel

Mark also has no account of the virgin birth and an adoptionist Christology is sometimes inferred from its text, particularly in some ancient manuscript versions of the baptism account.

The usual definition of virginity is never having had intercourse. The presence of an intact hymen was always considered to be evidence of virginity but it can tear or stretch without intercourse.

Smileless2012

Do you mean retained her virginity Maremia? She gave birth to James who became the 1st Archbishop of Jerusalem; Jude who wrote one of the letters in the New Testament, Joses and Simon as well as un named sisters (Mark chapter 6 v 3 Matthew chapter 13 v 55).

Even if there was an immaculate conception, it could not be possible to still be a virgin after the birth of a child, unless that child was born by Caesarian section of course, but there is no mention of that.

And you don't think he would because....

Smileless2012

Going back to the early 2nd Century, Polycarp a 2nd generation Christian linked to St. John the apostle taught that Jesus was truly born of a virgin.

There's no question doctrinally of the virgin birth, there is though the question as to whether Mary remained a perpetual virgin or had other children. This is a theological discussion rather than an accepted tenet of Christianity.

And Polycarp would know because....

Going back to the early 2nd Century, Polycarp a 2nd generation Christian linked to St. John the apostle taught that Jesus was truly born of a virgin.

There's no question doctrinally of the virgin birth, there is though the question as to whether Mary remained a perpetual virgin or had other children. This is a theological discussion rather than an accepted tenet of Christianity.

There are many Anglo Catholic churches which are part C of E but emphasise Catholic traditions where Mary is venerated.

Our last church before we moved was one and I do miss the beauty of the services held there.

The Christian tenet of the virgin birth isn't solely dependant on specific translations.

Iam64

I went to my six year old’s grandson’s Nativity yesterday. He goes to the village Catholic school, despite having been Christened in the C of E , at the same Church his mother, auntie and uncle were. His mum looked at the three local schools and approached the head to see if she’d accept her children into nursery and into primary, junior school. Yes was the answer, the key is Christianity. Incidentally my grandchildren attend Church from school, where the Catholic faith runs through everything.

Back to the Nativity. It was glorious, it contained the traditional story of the Nativity , with Mary, Joseph, the shepherds, the three Kings, the animals, the Star, and of course the star of the show, the baby Jesus. Lots of singing shouting dancing and happiness to celebrate the greatest story ever told.

No Judgement

I remember going to the Nativity at my children's school, very heavily pregnant reception teacher attended although she had started maternity leave. The Head made a lovely speech and ended by saying he thought a truly dedicated teacher would have had her baby in time to provide a real baby to lie in the manger. She laughed so much I thought we might have the real baby for the evening performance.

Maremia

Thank you Smileless, yes, and there are churches named as Saint James the Less, after a brother.
Some denominations say that Jesus did not have siblings. Not sure which ones, though.

Catholic teaching is that Mary remained a virgin and Jesus had no siblings.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Smileless2012

^I don't think it matters who the Dad was, actually^ really wyllow!!! I would think it would have mattered to Joseph.

There is no speculation if you believe what we're told in the Bible theworriedwell and Mary is special to all Christians.

I'm pretty sure that it is widely acknowledged that Catholics venerate Mary in a different way to other denominations. Although I think Orthodox churches are more like Catholics in this respect.

I think we have already discussed the bible being written, edited and translated by men.

Just discovered there's also a church of St. James the Great Maremia; less meaning younger and great meaning older.

Love a Carol Concert, love a Nativity play.

That was what I was told by one of their Parishioners, Smileless, about Saint James the Less. I hadn't know that either.

GrannyGravy13

Iam64 did you cry? I did 😿

There really is something so very special about a traditional Nativity with carols 🩷

Mine are in their 20s now, but always in floods at every nativity and school play.

Iam64

Oreo

Too late! I just made it.

Yes you did. Making the judgement doesn’t mean you made it correctly

Doesn’t mean I made it incorrectly either.We can only make our own judgement on anything after all.
Based on what I know and what I agree with on here is all I can do.
All anyone can do actually.

Yes of course I cried, grannygravy. The children did sing Little Donkey, weeping grannies everywhere. Away in a Manger wasn’t sung this year, possibly as well as that reduces me to weeping.

Yes I used to love them at DS school, he was a sheep.
My DGC live too far away to pop over.

Iam64 did you cry? I did 😿

There really is something so very special about a traditional Nativity with carols 🩷

That Nativity sounds lovely Iam.

some churches named as St. James the Less, after a brother I didn't know that Maremia; thank you.