John Smyth, Church Scandal, Channel 4 9pm

MartavTaurus you may be right perhaps the other daughter had distanced herself from the whole thing for her own sanity

The mother never ever said anything about an impossible situation in her ‘apology’ which would have been her opportunity to, she never said ‘darlings I couldn’t leave he would have beaten me or he would have taken you I couldn’t have risked it’ during her weak apology. She seemed resigned to being his lackey even her apology seemed so passionless
She never tried anything to help the boys apart from to pat their bloodied backs and bottoms with her nappies she did nothing for her son who was beaten at least once or her daughters who were treated as second class citizens
she just went along with it all in a benign sort of way I cannot see a way of making any excuses for her.

He was the biggest piece of filth that walks this earth I wish
he d have lived to go to prison but yes she allowed him to be.

Blossoming

I’m currently reading Rev Richard Coles’ “A Death in the Parish” and he mentions abuse of boys at summer camps. It makes me shudder, so much damage.

He has no room to talk! He used to drive to remote laybys to have sex with strangers. He is repulsive but regarded by some as a national treasure.

Wondering and discussing Ann Smythe’s part in these horrors has not imo seen attempts at making excuses for her

Two of her adult children describe her as his first victim. We don’t know if he physically or sexually abused her but she was frightened to upset him, to trigger anger

I think it is very convenient for her that she was able to attach all responsibility to her faith. Some faith, I'd call it!

I can't remember her exact words, but she said something like, her faith had taught her that you have to focus on the good. I think by that she said, she was married to him, and she knew she had to love the man.
So, where was the good for the abused, and the love for her own children?

I think she was misguided and foolish.

Interesting post MartavTaurus.
Your summary of her words aligns with what I heard her say. Misguided and foolish seems a rather kind way of considering her approach. I agree, where was the love (Christian love’ for the victims.
I still wonder though about the extent of brainwashing/Stockholm syndrome that she (and her children) were subjected to by this man,

I think she should be prosecuted for aiding and abetting (or something) and a judge and jury could hear psychiatric reports of her state of mind. If it is the case that she was incapable (as opposed to unwilling) to protect the victims then so be it; but I really don’t think that she should be able to just walk away as though nothing happened.

She is old now, and maybe there is little to be gained by jailing her, but I do think she needs to face up to her complicity in decades of very serious abuse. I may be mistaken but I thought that failure to report abuse was now a criminal offence?

I totally agree Doodledog she was part of the abuse by keeping her mouth firmly and smilingly shut and leaving her own children in danger For a grown up child to say they hated the father and were frightened of him and she didn’t protect them, no excuse at all

Iam64 well it didn’t appear that her children were effected by the Stockholm syndrome as they are very able to condemn the father I heard one say they hated him They couldn t escape she could have.

I watched it last night. I found the whole boys Christian camp thing weird but recall my brothers going off to Rotary camp every year and hating it so I guess it was something similar but with physical abuse.
I think I feel I am glad we no longer live in this world where men can no longer be considered 'charismatic.' The world these people loved in supported him in his privilege and so I can understand how the wife just saw herself as a satellite in this world. And yet, she dare not break away from it... I guess she felt like many women do, that she had too much to lose.
The positives to take from it were the children, confronting their own parents in this way takes immense courage and I admire them for that.
I am gald they made the documentary and I am glad I watched it. Very thought provoking indeed.

I wish there was an edit button- I realise I made some errors here!

I'm not sure she needs to be prosecuted?

The shame will be with her the rest of her life

her own children have spoken up against her, in effect

Everyone knows.

spend the prosecution money on the fight against more abuse?

Wyllow3

I'm not sure she needs to be prosecuted?

The shame will be with her the rest of her life

her own children have spoken up against her, in effect

Everyone knows.

I'm not sure either.

She was just 16 when she met him. She was scared of him too and always anxious to appease him.

No excuse for not speaking up but a bullying, dominating man can control a subservient wife and who would she tell? The Archbishop of Canterbury? 🤔

She could have told the police, the media, the camp organisers, social services- there were all kinds of possibilities. I don’t know who her associates and contacts were likely to be, but arguably if the family were well-connected she would have more options than most.

As I said above, jailing her is probably more vindictive than just; but we do have to consider the lives that would have been blighted by her moral cowardice (or complicity - who knows?). We can speculate about her motives, but most people would be made to account for their behaviour. Why shouldn’t she?

BlueBelle, the children have spoken out as adults and only as a result of the investigation triggered by complaints by others.
I absolutely understand the anger being directed at Mrs S but she appears to have been living the life of a surrendered wife. She met him when aged 16, a shy inexperienced teenager, he was a powerful older man.
The financial cost of prosecuting her would imo be better spent educating young women on the dangers of controlling relationships.
Not to mention working with boys and men who are the group most involved in abusing others

She could have told the police, the media, the camp organisers, social services- there were all kinds of possibilities.

They would probably have closed ranks.

If we look at historic cases of abuse, how far did any victims or those trying to help get with reporting the abuse to the authorities?

the camp organisers
They must have known!

If they had closed ranks (definitely a possibility) she would have a defence now. I am not a punitive person, but I feel strongly that as it is she has a case to answer.

Allira

^the camp organisers^
They must have known!

One would think. Should they be prosecuted too? these things happen when ‘good’ people do nothing.

these things happen when ‘good’ people do nothing. 👍

Or they cannot quite believe it is happening.

The abuse here began in the 1970s and 80s. There were duscussions between other camp leaders but no-one did anything about it.

Allira

^these things happen when ‘good’ people do nothing^. 👍

Or they cannot quite believe it is happening.

She knew, she saw the evidence with her own eyes.

Allira

^these things happen when ‘good’ people do nothing^. 👍

Or they cannot quite believe it is happening.

Maybe, but we can’t speculate (based on what?)

A trial would bring what happened to light and a jury could decide what or whether blame can be apportioned.

Allira

^She could have told the police, the media, the camp organisers, social services- there were all kinds of possibilities.^

They would probably have closed ranks.

If we look at historic cases of abuse, how far did any victims or those trying to help get with reporting the abuse to the authorities?

The media? Church sex abuse scandals are to he sort of things newspapers use as headlines.

So why not give them the story? Sorry - I’m not sure of your point, so may be missing it.