The next doctors’ strike

foxie48
The question is, if you can actually get to see a doctor.
I’m sorry to hear that your daughter is so overworked but disappointed that she was risking her and others’ lives by driving when she is as you say, shattered.
There are signs everywhere saying tiredness can kill.
I pass the same message to my niece who is a paramedic working long and challenging hours in London, who then drives up to see her mum and dad.

Homestead most people seem to be pretty clueless about what other people's job's entail. My doctor daughter has just come off nights, had a few hours sleep and drove over to see us as she's working over Christmas. She's shattered so she's already hit the sack! However, she was giving me a run down of what she'd dealt with during her night shifts which covered several days including the weekend. I will be careful not to say too much (patient confidentiality) but as a senior registrar in Anaesthetics she did neuro and cardiac operations, also a really sad late miscarriage for an extremely unwell women who had lost a lot of blood and thankfully helped to bring a baby into the world completely unscathed, intubated several extremely sick patients, helped to rescucitate cardiac arrests, dealt with situations when a young woman didn't "make it" etc etc. When she's "on call" as a senior registrar she deals with whatever is brought to her.
She is not greedy, she is not irresponsible or selfish and the level of knowledge, training and experience she brings to work each day is more than most people will ever comprehend. Those of you who think doctors are greedy, overpaid and selfish please tell your doctor that if you ever have the misfortune to need their help. I can guarantee that that they will still do their very best to keep you alive.

To the person who said that firefighters do nothing but drink tea, you are clueless about the job they actually do. However, perhaps if you study Grenfell and King's Cross fires, to name but two and study what went on, it might give you a clue. Yes, they do have stand down time as most occupations do get a break of some sort, but they also have station duties, cleaning and maintaining of equipment, drills, fire prevention etc I was really angered by such a thoughtless , ignorant comment. I sincerely hope you never need them.

My BiL exemplifies that. Born in 1951 into a GP's family, his farther had been against the NHS. BiL became a doctor was was consistently conservative and Conservative until the 1980's. Mind you, he always did a very, very full day in the NHS before a few private hours.

I'd say he was "a-political" really.

Subsequently as things changed he begun to be radicalised during the long years he was a consultant because of changes made and what he saw as failures in patient care and care for new young doctors entering the profession.

At 74, both he and my sister (also a lifelong consultant) support the resident doctors, although both admit they are glad not to have had to make a choice

They see the destruction in the future careers of young doctors as making no sense at all for the NHS

..And are also aware of the enormous burdens of student debt young doctors find themselves in.

When they trained, its was usually middle class students whose mum and dad could support them: my sister, in the 1970's, found herself just about the only one with an "ordinary" background in Manchester Medical School (never mind there being very few women.)

Times change.

When the NHS first came in, many doctors were so conservative (small c) and "establishment" they were even against that. Its been a long slow change and its because of social circumstances not some apparent nasties suddenly wanting to be doctors.

Iam64

No one is paid when on strike. The striking docs won’t make up financially even if their demands were met. I see the current BMA leadership as damaging the profession. The demands on training places etc need ongoing negotiation rather than yet more pressure on our nhs

The BMA leadership is certainly militant which is not really what we have come to expect from our medical profession.

English doctors settlement in 2024 was 6% + £1K, Welsh doctors have accepted 4% + £750 for 2025 settlement. The NHS has different contracts with each of the four countries in the UK ie England, Scotland, Wales and NI. Inflation for 2024 -2025 is 3.5%.

Re comparing salaries, my daughter has friends who are working in New Zealand, the tax is lower, work/ life balance is better, their work experience is improved and their cost of living v salary is much better too. The biggest downside has been getting further training as the N Zealand doctors take precedence but of course that's not true in the UK and they've had issues getting onto specialist training here.

*sorry *Cumbrianmale I missed your like the police and armed forces. My post is unnecessary except to add in prison officers.

Cumbrianmale56

They received a 22% pay rise last year, and an above inflation pay rise this year, but still want more. I think like the police and armed forces, doctors should be banned from going on strike.

It is already illegal for the police, armed forces and prison officers to strike, that's why their pay offers are so poor. As far as I'm aware these are the only categories forbidden by law.

No one is paid when on strike. The striking docs won’t make up financially even if their demands were met. I see the current BMA leadership as damaging the profession. The demands on training places etc need ongoing negotiation rather than yet more pressure on our nhs

Allira
I have just sent Christmas money and the rate of exchange is good for us here at the moment.
It certainly is. Friends in New Zealand mentioned how poor the exchange rate was at the moment too.

foxie48

"Anesthetist salaries in New Zealand vary significantly with experience, ranging from around
NZD $158,000 - $193,000 for entry-level to well over $400,000 for experienced consultants, with some senior roles and private work reaching $600,000 or more, especially with on-call duties and locum work. Base pay starts lower (around $170k for first-year specialists) but increases with seniority, while additional payments for on-call, penalties, and private practice substantially boost total earnings"

Entry level here is around £105,000, I believe, which is comparable.

£105,000 is equivalent to about NZ$240,000.
The NZ$ is worth about 43p at the moment.
The Aus$ is worth 49p.

I have just sent Christmas money and the rate of exchange is good for us here at the moment.

Do hope they are not being paid whilst on strike, that the government do not cave in to the greedy lot. Never heard one person who agrees with what they are doing.

But they are not. There is an acute shortage of doctors in both Canada and Australia so employing UK trained doctors is actually a cheap solution. However, unlike the UK, in Australia and Canada, home graduates take precedence over UK trained doctor for specialist training.

I was wondering how Australian/Canadian doctors feel about the influx of British doctors.

Many aren't keen, one reason being they're taking the places of Australian trained medics.

So not ideal for them in many ways. Not sure how we feel about that .

foxie48

Is it any wonder that doctors choose to move to other countries where they are paid extremely well for the qualifications that they have, have better working conditions and are respected?

No, it’s no wonder

Is it any wonder that doctors choose to move to other countries where they are paid extremely well for the qualifications that they have, have better working conditions and are respected?

"Anesthetist salaries in New Zealand vary significantly with experience, ranging from around
NZD $158,000 - $193,000 for entry-level to well over $400,000 for experienced consultants, with some senior roles and private work reaching $600,000 or more, especially with on-call duties and locum work. Base pay starts lower (around $170k for first-year specialists) but increases with seniority, while additional payments for on-call, penalties, and private practice substantially boost total earnings"

"Anesthesiologist salaries in Canada vary significantly but generally range from the
mid-$200,000s to over $400,000 annually, with a national average often cited around $270,000 - $380,000+, depending on location, experience, and practice setting, with higher earnings in rural areas or busy urban centres with more calls. For example, averages in some provinces reach over $400k"

"Anesthesiologist salaries in the US are very high, generally ranging from the low $300,000s to over $400,000, with averages often cited around $350,000 - $400,000+ annually, though top earners, especially locums or specialized roles, can reach $500k-$800k+, influenced by location, experience (entry-level around $280k, senior $580k+), and practice setting. "

"A Consultant Anaesthetist in Ireland, working within the HSE, typically earns a base salary starting around €220,000 to €230,000 and can reach over €260,000+ annually, with potential for higher earnings through on-call, overtime, and additional responsibilities, often exceeding €250k to €300k+ depending on experience and location, reflecting senior status"

Yes Ronib I also struggle to understand why the NHS salary is so poor in comparison to the salaries in other countries.

Yet somehow they manage

Postgraduate degrees and doctorates can be obtained part time, and usually are by clinicians so they are not in full time education for seven years, they are often sponsored to do postgraduate study. Most researchers are not medically qualified, and those who are attract higher salaries than you describe, as evidenced by the adverts I posted. Not all research positions are filled, it depends on whether the research is interesting and relevant to people’s interests, as they are normally time limited and specific.
A salary of around £50k is not unusual for people with clinical qualifications but who are not medically qualified, whether they are a researcher or a clinician.

Clinical researchers will have at least a masters degree and usually working towards a doctorate. So at least 7 years in higher education with very little income. So how is it that researchers can manage to survive on incomes of about £50k when resident doctors can’t? Presumably research positions are filled?