BMJ defends FGM

Nimco ali has done an article on it, in the telegraph.

I thought it was 2015 for social workers teachers etc wasn't it.

Galaxy, can you expand that, or point me in the direction of something to read. Ta

Mandatory reporting has been in place since 2003. Is it working?

But the communities, or certain women who have experienced fgm are raising concerns about the article in the bmj. They have concerns as they are saying the language used comes from their experience.

Apologies, the iPad gremlin took over and typed working

I recall in the early nineties, detailed and at times heated discussion about FGM on the safeguarding team, with police and health . Our immediate area at that time had few asylum seekers or immigrants from communities who practiced FGM. The multi disciplinary work shifted my initial response of seek and prosecute, to realising work with relevant communities was an essential building block.
Working

The mandatory reporting was a good start, there are often signs that this is about to happen, whether that is discussion of travel abroad, change in behaviour, I would think it is more teaching staff rather than medical staff who will be impacted by the mandatory reporting, they tend to know the families well, and are more likely to witness signs of distress or hear disclosures.

How are doctors supposed to find more cases to bring to the attention of the police?It requires an intimate examination or personal disclosure and a willingness of the girl to give evidence. Realistically, how many girls/young women do you think would be willing to turn their parents in to the police? Are you suggesting girls returning from trips abroad should be examined in customs? The reason why there are few prosecutions is surely because families stay silent? Perhaps you could give your thoughts on how to get more prosecutions if you think this is an effective way of reducing this and most importantly, how will you measure success?

Then she is both abuser and abused, which I suppose isn't completely unique in abuse cases.
I think it wasn't necessarily cover up by professionals but rather inaction/ lack of knowledge, they didn't bring about the mandatory reporting, legally enforced, for no reason.

foxie48

Don;t put words in my mouth, Galaxy
"We want to prevent it happening rather than try to prosecute parents after the event, because prosecution is a double crisis for the child involved and also for any other children in the family."

I am not saying we shouldn't prosecute something which is illegal. I'm saying it is better to try to prevent the illegal act in the first place.

Thanks foxie48 for stating the aim of those working in this fraught and challenging area of safeguarding. I’m not suggesting FGM isn’t abuse and I’m sure you aren’t either. The reality is a loving caring mother, herself a victim of FGM will be under untold pressure to continue this abuse pattern.

There’s no evidence I’m aware of thst medical or social work professionals collude or cover up. I know that women who were subjected and give birth often need extensive reconstructive surgery.

In terms of prevention, we need to be very clear about values, this is not a value to be tolerated. We don't start excusing it in terms of 'culture'

Agree with this as well.

Galaxy

Well yes but we would like that ideal in all forms of child abuse, but we have never been able to achieve that throughout history. The low rate if prosecution does not help the situation, similar to the low rate of conviction for rape, it legitimises those behaviours in a way.

Hear hear

I am not saying we shouldn't prosecute something which is illegal. I'm saying it is better to try to prevent the illegal act in the first place.

But the trying to prevent is not stopping it.

All the jaw ache in the world is not stopping it.

How much more "discussion", money put towards it, protest groups, letters written, etc etc

Well yes but we would like that ideal in all forms of child abuse, but we have never been able to achieve that throughout history. The low rate if prosecution does not help the situation, similar to the low rate of conviction for rape, it legitimises those behaviours in a way.

Don;t put words in my mouth, Galaxy
"We want to prevent it happening rather than try to prosecute parents after the event, because prosecution is a double crisis for the child involved and also for any other children in the family."

I am not saying we shouldn't prosecute something which is illegal. I'm saying it is better to try to prevent the illegal act in the first place.

In terms of prevention, we need to be very clear about values, this is not a value to be tolerated. We don't start excusing it in terms of 'culture' , that is just a form of progressive racism.

Do you say that about other forms of child abuse? Obviously they should be prosecuted.

Is there evidence that doctors are not reporting this? Is there any evidence that children are being taken to the doctors with evidence that they have been subjected to FMG and doctors are colluding with the parents? I don't think there is. Sadly, most girls who are subjected to this are taken out of the country and brought back when they have healed. So how on earth is anyone expected to know it has taken place? Yes, parents can be prosecuted if they take children to another country to have this done but unless every child is examined at customs, how on earth is anyone supposed to know that this has happened? This is why discussion is a better tool than legislation. We want to prevent it happening rather than try to prosecute parents after the event, because prosecution is a double crisis for the child involved and also for any other children in the family.

Cossy

fancythat

It is illegal.

Which doesnt seem to count for much nowadays.

In this country, quite a few girls are “shipped” out when they reach puberty

It sounds like this is somewhere where schools could come in on this - ie if they've got female children from the relevant country then an educative lesson or two on this - including the ways their relatives might try and con them into a "home visit" for that sort of purpose and a designated teacher they could report to if they saw that it looked as if arrangements might be being made to do that to them. Useful chance to also educate them on how they might get conned into arranged marriages and the like as well.

Any government on this occasion cannot be blamed.

Unless nothing much happens when they are notified.
But even then, the reporting should still happen.

And the medical people getting prosectued as well for non-reporting if that is what is happening.
They would be breaking the law as well.

Any government on this occasion cannot be blamed.
The laws are already in place.

That thousands get prosecuted.

It is a crime.

And that medical people properly report it.
I suspect they are not all doing so.

Sadly despite legislation making it a crime it isn’t going to stop overnight as a result
What do you suggest to speed up the involved communities changing their traditions

True.

Which takes it back to, if there are many more prosecutions, it should cut down the amount of it being down[at least in the Country] by a lot.

There has been discussion on this subject for decades.
Which has far from stopped it.