BMJ defends FGM

Thanks Galaxy

From start to finish foxie48

theworriedwell There was an infamous American case where twin boys were circumcised and one completely lost his penis. Why take that risk? I believe he committed suicide.

Yes he did, but probably more to do with the abuse he and his twin suffered under John Money, advocate of gender reassignment.

embryo.asu.edu/pages/david-reimer-and-john-money-gender-reassignment-controversy-johnjoan-case

Nannee49

Surely we all do that notSpaghetti?Couldn't agree more Maremia

I don't think so,
Sadly!

Perhaps FGM should be called what it is - violence against women and girls.

Wife-beating used to be something that a husband could mete out to his wife for perceived annoyances and smacking was a recognised form of discipline for children. Both were aspects of ‘our’ culture but we no longer tolerate those acts, we call them what they are - violence - and have legislated against them.

I didn’t see anyone on this thread seeing FGM as anything other than violence to women and girls. It’s a criminal offence, it’s covered in every safeguarding guidance in all agencies.

The way agencies approach communities where it’s an established necessity is rightly being raised. As foxie recognises, the approach, the language used in engaging with these communities is key. I use the words horrific, barbaric here. Using these words to eg a mother open to discussing not subjecting her daughters to it, might result in her just closing down, her daughter might be on a plane rather than the subject of safeguarding

It is illegal.

Which doesnt seem to count for much nowadays.

Personally, I would not expect to move to a Country, and then act illegally there.

And if have been in that Country a while, still act illegally.

fancythat

It is illegal.

Which doesnt seem to count for much nowadays.

In this country, quite a few girls are “shipped” out when they reach puberty

Do communities that practise FGM see it as violence, though? Maybe they don’t, because it’s what’s always happened. Maybe it needs to have the word violence attached to it, for people to understand it’s significance. When smacking is framed as violence against a child it’s much more shocking than it simply being something that ‘happened to me and it didn’t do me any harm’

I agree. It's not OK. It's cruel violence and should be called out. If it means those cultures who pursue this feel singled out or bad about themselves then so be it.

LBC Sheila Fogarty now discussing this

It has been called out, and there is legislation in place. In the UK, and perhaps other places too.

I have read that it still goes on in some flats in London.
Where a group supports it they will find a way to do it.

The essay is opening discussion in a professional context. If something is illegal but continues covertly, then surely an open discussion between professionals looking at current practice and the language used is worthwhile. I can be as vehemently opposed to something as I like but if it's not getting the results I want then I think it would be sensible to think about the reasons why. No one is saying these practices are in any way acceptable but they are continuing in some communities so perhaps there are different/better ways of preventing them?

Yes foxie48, trying to find a way to stop it more effective than all this performative breast beating. I want it stopped and I want women and children safe.

foxie48

The essay is opening discussion in a professional context. If something is illegal but continues covertly, then surely an open discussion between professionals looking at current practice and the language used is worthwhile. I can be as vehemently opposed to something as I like but if it's not getting the results I want then I think it would be sensible to think about the reasons why. No one is saying these practices are in any way acceptable but they are continuing in some communities so perhaps there are different/better ways of preventing them?

Doctors and other regulated healthcare professionals in the UK are trained to spot signs of female genital mutilation (FGM) and are legally required to report "known" cases involving girls under 18 to the police.

If this Country is serious about it being stopped, then more discussion is hardly the answer. When legislation is already in place to deal with it.

Rosie51

theworriedwell There was an infamous American case where twin boys were circumcised and one completely lost his penis. Why take that risk? I believe he committed suicide.

Yes he did, but probably more to do with the abuse he and his twin suffered under John Money, advocate of gender reassignment.

embryo.asu.edu/pages/david-reimer-and-john-money-gender-reassignment-controversy-johnjoan-case

Why did that abuse start? Yes because his penis was cut off. He found out what they'd done and tried to live as a man. He committed suicide and I think his twin did as well. What was the root cause? An unnecessary surgical procedure on an innocent baby.

Not the only deaths caused by male circumcision. Have a look at the study I linked, one of those babies died.

All circumcision for religious or cultural reasons should be illegal.

fancythat I think most professionals would prefer to find ways to stop it happening in the first place than deal with the legal consequences after the event.

True.

Which takes it back to, if there are many more prosecutions, it should cut down the amount of it being down[at least in the Country] by a lot.

There has been discussion on this subject for decades.
Which has far from stopped it.

Sadly despite legislation making it a crime it isn’t going to stop overnight as a result
What do you suggest to speed up the involved communities changing their traditions

That thousands get prosecuted.

It is a crime.

And that medical people properly report it.
I suspect they are not all doing so.

And the medical people getting prosectued as well for non-reporting if that is what is happening.
They would be breaking the law as well.

Any government on this occasion cannot be blamed.
The laws are already in place.

Any government on this occasion cannot be blamed.

Unless nothing much happens when they are notified.
But even then, the reporting should still happen.

Cossy

fancythat

It is illegal.

Which doesnt seem to count for much nowadays.

In this country, quite a few girls are “shipped” out when they reach puberty

It sounds like this is somewhere where schools could come in on this - ie if they've got female children from the relevant country then an educative lesson or two on this - including the ways their relatives might try and con them into a "home visit" for that sort of purpose and a designated teacher they could report to if they saw that it looked as if arrangements might be being made to do that to them. Useful chance to also educate them on how they might get conned into arranged marriages and the like as well.