Always respect the power of nature, particularly the sea.

Not just the sea. Mountains too.
Two walkers were rescued from Britain’s second highest mountain in -15C temperatures while wearing trainers and jogging bottoms.
The men in their 20s had set off at 6pm on Tuesday to climb 4,295ft Ben Macdui, in the Cairngorms, Scotland. Two and a half hours after beginning the hike they called for help.
They were rescued by 13 volunteers from the Cairngorm Mountain Rescue Team.

Ian Cornfoot, the rescue team’s leader, said: “They wouldn’t have survived the night with what they were wearing. One was suffering from hypothermia. He was in a bad way. The other was also very cold.

“They were three metres apart, about 1,050 metres up. It was -15C with the wind chill. One was also in a very precarious position. If he had slipped, he would have gone a long way and would have suffered serious injuries.

Those shingle beaches can be especially dangerous as the waves can pull the shingle leaving deep holes and push it into high banks making coming out of the water impossible.

It was a tragic occasion which should have been avoided. No swimming should have taken place in those conditions.

My DD2 knows the older man and says a kinder more considerate man you couldn't hope to meet. Very sad for everyone.

According to DM the older man went in to help another swimmer, then got into trouble himself.

Sarnia

I was reading yesterday that the second man in his 40's drowned whilst trying to rescue the older man who was in difficulties.

Yes, it's what people as a community do. Unfortunately a split decision here to help someone when the conditions should have said don't, but understandable if true.

There were people coming out bleeding, crying, missing shoes, etc and onlookers with no training rushed to them with robes, drinks and support. I think I instinctively would have.

I was reading yesterday that the second man in his 40's drowned whilst trying to rescue the older man who was in difficulties.

One of the family who were hosting us this Christmas in the Wirral did go for a sea swim on Christmas Day, but the sea was flat calm, clear blue sky, no wind. It was still bloody freezing though - I thought he was very brave! 🥶🥶

Allira
We were talking about that yesterday😥

We should be bliddy grateful they are there at all and NOT endanger THEIR lives by personal “freedom” aka stupidity.

It is 41 years and just over one week since the Penlee Lifeboat disaster when the crew of the lifeboat Solomon Browne lost their lives trying to rescue the crew of the Union Star. Sixteen lives were lost.
The weather and waves were treacherous.

Ziplok

It is, indeed, tragic, but why did these people ignore the danger? Not only has this foolhardiness had the worst of consequences, sadly, but their actions also put at risk the lives of those who venture out to try to rescue them. I’m afraid there was a terrible lack of common sense.

Exactly, hear, hear.

It's my understanding that people who do mountain rescue, coastguards, lifeboats are all volunteers - ie not compelled to take risks. That's not something I'd do personally - as I'm not a risk-taker (well not in that sort of way - mine is in a very different way). I guess there's a sort of camaraderie involved in communal risk-taking like that - unlike those of us that just want to stay somewhere comfortable and in the warm....but certainly do things in different ways that a lot of other people seem to regard as "taking risks ".
Blimey.
It sounds as if you are saying “Serves them right for volunteering” when lifeboats go down or mountain rescuers fall to their death or freeze on a mountain top!
Yes they may be volunteers, but they do not have the choice of who they rescue- the foolhardy and ill prepared or genuinely unlucky.
We should be bliddy grateful they are there at all and NOT endanger THEIR lives by personal “freedom” aka stupidity.
I would reiterate - if there are sharks off an Australian beach - you don’t swim, if the waves are 6’ high and winds at 65 mph off the Devon coast - especially a beach with a known undertow- you don’t swim
It should be obvious to anybody.

One of the men still missing has been named. He was a local antiques dealer.

The man who was rescued said

Mike Brown, 60, who has lived in Budleigh Salterton for nearly 30 years, said the sea conditions on Thursday were the worst he had ever seen.

After entering the sea and being "unable to get out", Mr Brown said he only made it out with the help of "two very brave men" and sustained small injuries.

He said: "After successive waves crashing me into the stones, I managed to get into relatively shallow water, but I was spent.
I had no energy left to stand and I'd taken a number of blows to the head."

Christmas Day was very windy indeed.

This is a tragic event but I'm not sure that events like this should be cancelled on Health and Safety grounds although perhaps there should be risk assessment and due diligence beforehand.

RosieandherMaw

I take the point about personal freedom but on the other hand, what about the emergency services- mountain rescue, coastguards, lifeboats etc who involve themselves in considerable risk to rescue those who may have ignored warnings or set off inadequately prepared?
Is it fair to put them at even more risk?
I don’t know the ins and outs of sea wild swimming or indeed climbing Snowdon, or indeed if there was a failure of common sense in this case, but to go back to the thread title- never underestimate Nature.

Exactly this.

Ziplok

It is, indeed, tragic, but why did these people ignore the danger? Not only has this foolhardiness had the worst of consequences, sadly, but their actions also put at risk the lives of those who venture out to try to rescue them. I’m afraid there was a terrible lack of common sense.

Difficult to argue with that , Ziplock.

It is, indeed, tragic, but why did these people ignore the danger? Not only has this foolhardiness had the worst of consequences, sadly, but their actions also put at risk the lives of those who venture out to try to rescue them. I’m afraid there was a terrible lack of common sense.

Firstly RIP the known and unknown (presumably) deceased. Those who love them must be reeling from shock.
I agree with all the posters that have said that good advice was , very unfortunately, not taken notice of.
I consider myself a strong swimmer and an enthusiastic sea swimmer but the power of waves is terrifying.
I first experienced it on a quick break in Tenerife in a relatively protected bay near the beach.
The waves' power not only knocked me off my feet and turned me upside down in the water , it also slammed grains of the black sand through to the inside of the mesh of my swimsuit. There some of them stayed until the demise of the swimsuit as I couldn't get them out.
Sad , sad day.

It's my understanding that people who do mountain rescue, coastguards, lifeboats are all volunteers - ie not compelled to take risks. That's not something I'd do personally - as I'm not a risk-taker (well not in that sort of way - mine is in a very different way). I guess there's a sort of camaraderie involved in communal risk-taking like that - unlike those of us that just want to stay somewhere comfortable and in the warm....but certainly do things in different ways that a lot of other people seem to regard as "taking risks".

Though I would agree one can't underestimate Nature and I do look at people who walk out on piers and the like in stormy weather (and some of them come a cropper as a consequence) and don't understand why they feel so invincible that they don't think a wave might come along and swipe them one. As for those people in, say, America that "chase tornadoes" = very much rather them than me....and I don't want to know about mountaineering, travelling in countries that hate women (eg Afghanistan), etc.

I guess it's the "Yay - I managed it" sense of achievement.

I take the point about personal freedom but on the other hand, what about the emergency services- mountain rescue, coastguards, lifeboats etc who involve themselves in considerable risk to rescue those who may have ignored warnings or set off inadequately prepared?
Is it fair to put them at even more risk?
I don’t know the ins and outs of sea wild swimming or indeed climbing Snowdon, or indeed if there was a failure of common sense in this case, but to go back to the thread title- never underestimate Nature.

There are deep shelves at Budleigh where the pebbles suddenly dip down several feet putting you out of your depth. That combined with those massive waves would have made it extremely dangerous. One of those who died was very bravely trying to rescue the older man who died. What a terrible tragedy. Why do people persist in ignoring advice? It was a heavy price to pay. Their families must be devastated.

MartavTaurus you can’t cancel something that is just ad hock
and everyone has the right to do what they want which is why people climb the highest mountain, follow twisters, and do every kind of extreme sport known to man unfortunately some will pay with their lives as in this case and it’s very very sad
If one of the men who died was a regular cold water swimmer he obviously underestimated the difference in the tide and waves that day Very very sad but very very foolish
As I said upthread I decided against it although our Christmas Day swim is very well organised and did go ahead without any incident but it’s very different as there is only a small cordoned off area to go in so you would not be away from the main safety aspects as in Devon it seemed a free for all

People will always think they can beat nature and they can’t

BlueBelle

Carriadagain no they wouldn’t go and find little individual coves as it all about the community feel and the crowds watching.
You wouldn’t have a football or rugby match without some form of control This annual event is a ‘sports’ event and needs safety aspects to be in control by safety officials
I feel strongly about this
The Devon event should have been called off as too dangerous and the council were in deficit not to do so but also it’s down to personal safety and unfortunately those two poor men didn’t respect the sea and its fury

I remember being in Spain one summers holiday and the beach was closed because it was deemed dangerous they had some police patrolling …Of course two men decided to defy the rules and go in, do I need to say they were Brits, anyway before you could say Jack Robinson , two policemen dragged them out clouting them with their batons as they did so. They had only got to knee depth but I bet they wouldn’t do it again.

To some people the "community feel and the crowds watching" is all part of it and yep...the local Facebook pages here have been full of Christmas swims (no sort of "control" I could spot).

But layering on "official rules etc" stuff or trying to stop these swims would then lead to lots of people in some areas at least (ie this one for sure) deliberately looking for secluded little coves and setting up campfires there whilst on the subject etc. People in some parts of the country at least know exactly how to find private places to do whatever they've decided - allowed or no....hence the impossibility of even thinking of banning things.

The police know exactly what to say in some areas if accosting people at unofficial gatherings - they say it (ie "A gathering of close friends is it?" - "Yes officer") and off they go again and the gathering continues.

The problem at Budleigh beach is that, if the tide is strong and high you get swept to the Western end where there is no beach to get out. Just a wall of huge pebbles. It's possible the swimmers could have been knocked unconscious at this point on exit by the washing machine effect, and then hypothermia sets in.
My friend who was there and a daily swimmer didn't go in. She came round to see us yesterday and is traumatised from watching things unfold. DSiL is army trained and said he thought he was nearly going to die.

I don't see how you can cancel an event that isn't an organised event in the first place.
The Budleigh swim is just a tradition, and people (not a huge number) turn up if they so wish. The man who drowned swims every day in the sea there, and would probably have done so anyway.

Carriadagain no they wouldn’t go and find little individual coves as it all about the community feel and the crowds watching.
You wouldn’t have a football or rugby match without some form of control This annual event is a ‘sports’ event and needs safety aspects to be in control by safety officials
I feel strongly about this
The Devon event should have been called off as too dangerous and the council were in deficit not to do so but also it’s down to personal safety and unfortunately those two poor men didn’t respect the sea and its fury

I remember being in Spain one summers holiday and the beach was closed because it was deemed dangerous they had some police patrolling …Of course two men decided to defy the rules and go in, do I need to say they were Brits, anyway before you could say Jack Robinson , two policemen dragged them out clouting them with their batons as they did so. They had only got to knee depth but I bet they wouldn’t do it again.

They won’t be banned and they shouldn’t be Cariad but they can be controlled but of course that costs money which our town puts money aside for as an annual event and then charges you £10 (which goes to charity) but that way it’s all official and can justify the services needed, using the lifeboat and life guards to control the event there are ropes along the run in so you would go in inbetween the ropes and are seen and controlled just like any other sporting event
Many towns do it this way which is why many towns cancelled their event our was deemed safe enough.
Some towns just leave it as an annual free for all My daughters town in Ireland again no lifeguards around, no boats nothing just people running in and out and accident waiting to happen

Our local TV showed an interview with one of the swimmers who said he thought he was going in for a Christmas dip and found himself pulled from underneath ending up under the shore waves. Two fully clothed people managed to drag him out and his face was covered in blood. He said the waves were so powerful, it was foolish to even consider going in.