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Venezuela air attack

(408 Posts)
Grandmabatty Sat 03-Jan-26 08:35:31

US have attacked Venezuela with missiles. This is unforgivable

Ashcombe Sun 04-Jan-26 17:51:20

For anyone questioning the legality of attacking Venezuela and abducting their leader:

Remember we're talking about a highly corrupt leader, a known criminal who used his high office to make billions for himself, and has manipulated elections to stay in power, has used his military against his own citizens, has protected his corrupt friends and punished his political enemies.

And the President of Venezuela did
some bad things too.

imaround Sun 04-Jan-26 17:39:49

I still don't know enough about this to hold an informed discussion. Honestly, I was painting my bathroom yesterday.

I am concerned that he did this without Congress, which is unconstitutional in the US.

I am concerned that Trump broke International law.

And I am concerned that yesterday Trump mentioned Mexico, Columbia and now this post about Greenland.

I do wonder how many countries he has to invade before the rest of the world starts getting worried. Not to say they aren't to be honest, but I think there will come a time, soon, when the rest of the world will have to do something against the US. And we will deserve it as a country, even though so many of us don't support it.

I get all the diplomacy and why everyone has to tread lightly. My post is just about how I feel. I will rationalize it all later. wink

Grandmabatty Sun 04-Jan-26 16:09:44

I think I mentioned the threat to Greenland earlier on the thread. He'll go as far as he gets away with, him and his allies. He really only can be defeated from the inside I fear. And there doesn't seem to be a strong resistance at the moment from the ruling party.

Maremia Sun 04-Jan-26 15:57:12

Stephen Miller's wife has posted an image of Greenland covered by the flag of the USA.
Greenland/Denmark is a member of NATO.
Anyone concerned?

Mamie Sun 04-Jan-26 15:51:02

I think the outcome between Gonzalez, Machado and Rodriguez is very unclear. Trump obviously doesn't want the first two and Rodriguez doesn't sound too keen. Then there are the Generals....
It could all get very difficult.

Casdon Sun 04-Jan-26 15:39:00

I think one of the biggest differences was that it wasn’t unexpected, and the reasons given were eloquently expressed, and at length. It wasn’t a ‘I do as I like and don’t have to tell you plebs why’ category of action. I’m not defending what happened at all, but I believe the perception of the necessity for the action was very different.

Wyllow3 Sun 04-Jan-26 15:34:46

That isn't surprising, though: the actions were just as parlous, imo, if not worse, but the world was in a different place entirely politically now as countries line up against Trump.

Casdon Sun 04-Jan-26 15:31:48

Wyllow3

Ah, done.

A quite shocking and corrupt USA incident, and it is hardly surprising people are looking back at it and comparing - and it was the people of Panama that greatly suffered by the whole secret CIA business.
Goodness knows how the CIA is involved now.

There was nonetheless overwhelming support in the USA for Bush’s actions Wyllow3, and although there was criticism from some countries, it was not of the magnitude that is being expressed about the current action.

Fallingstar Sun 04-Jan-26 13:41:29

The US, and UK in this instance, were responsible for de-democratising Iran and putting in place a dictator - the Shah

“On 19 August 1953, Prime Minister of Iran Mohammad Mosaddegh was overthrown in a coup d'état orchestrated by the United States (CIA) and the United Kingdom (MI6). A key motive was to protect British oil interests in Iran after Mossadegh nationalized and refused to concede to western oil demands.[5][6][7] It was instigated by the United States (under the name TP-AJAX Project[8] or Operation Ajax) and the United Kingdom (under the name Operation Boot).[9][10][11][12]”

This most certainly led to the revolution in the late 1970s and the rise of the present regime.
One example of how empire building can turn bad.

petra Sun 04-Jan-26 13:34:38

What would the great man think now. Nelson Mandela.

www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1432458237806063

petra Sun 04-Jan-26 13:32:09

This true film is funny and very informative.
An American pilot running drugs into the us for the C.I.A.

www.imdb.com/title/tt3532216/mediaviewer/rm1861494784/?ref_=tt_ov_i
Tom Cruise plays the pilot.

Fallingstar Sun 04-Jan-26 13:31:09

The thing is we can no longer safely perceive the US as the moral enforcer of what is right and good for peoples the world over. I think history paints a very different picture of what the US has actually been up to in the name of regime change.
Is simply empire building, and to call it anything else is rather naive.
Tbh Trump is only one in a long line of US empire builders, he is just less discrete and a whole lot more erratic/crazy.

TerriBull Sun 04-Jan-26 13:28:56

Thanks Wyllow and petra, I'll get around to clicking on the links provided.

petra Sun 04-Jan-26 13:27:24

Wyllow3
The CIA have their evil tenticles everywhere.

petra Sun 04-Jan-26 13:25:49

TerriBull
I think you’ll find this documentary film interesting.

www.netflix.com/gb/title/82145211?s=i&trkid=258593161&vlang=en&trg=cp

Another one is Bitter lake. The info in this documentary film blows your mind. At times the filming is odd but it’s the audio that blows your mind.

Wyllow3 Sun 04-Jan-26 13:19:45

Ah, done.

A quite shocking and corrupt USA incident, and it is hardly surprising people are looking back at it and comparing - and it was the people of Panama that greatly suffered by the whole secret CIA business.
Goodness knows how the CIA is involved now.

Wyllow3 Sun 04-Jan-26 13:18:01

You'll need to enter this into the search engine to get the results

www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=why+was+the+US%27s+involvment+with+Noreiga+controversial&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Wyllow3 Sun 04-Jan-26 13:16:08

TerriBull

I'm just wondering if there was the same worldwide condemnation of George Bush Snr. back in the late 80s when Noriega of Panama was captured and flown to the US, Subsequently went on trial. Similar circumstances, but for the life of me I can't remember the furore around it, I imagine there must have been one.

Indeed, a furore, and massive US lies/corruption.

"https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=why+was+the+US%27s+involvment+with+Noreiga+controversial&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

"The United States' involvement with Manuel Noriega was controversial primarily because the U.S. had a long, transactional relationship with him, overlooking his well-known criminal activities for decades until he was no longer a reliable asset for U.S. foreign policy goals. This history created several layers of controversy:

Prior Knowledge of Criminality: U.S. intelligence agencies, including the CIA (which George H.W. Bush once directed), were aware of Noriega's involvement in drug trafficking, money laundering, and human rights abuses from as early as the 1970s. Instead of prosecuting him, the U.S. paid him as a valuable intelligence asset during the Cold War to help combat Cuban and Soviet influence in Latin America and assist the Contras in Nicaragua This made the later "war on drugs" justification for his removal seem hypocritical to critics.

Shifting Justifications: The U.S. government shifted its public rationale for intervention from Cold War regional stability to a "war on drugs" and the restoration of democracy when it became politically expedient to do so. Critics argued the U.S. only turned against Noriega when his brutal behavior became an international embarrassment and he became an unreliable partner, potentially threatening the security of the Panama Canal."

And more.

Civilian Casualties

"Civilian Casualties and Due Process:

The invasion resulted in significant Panamanian civilian casualties and extensive property damage, raising ethical questions about the use of military force for what was essentially a law enforcement operation to capture a single individual

Furthermore, Noriega's trial in Miami was criticized because the court prohibited his defense from presenting evidence about his extensive work for the CIA and his payments from the U.S. government, leading some to characterize the trial as a "show trial" designed to conceal embarrassing details of past U.S. covert operations.

TerriBull Sun 04-Jan-26 13:15:20

Just remembered another deposing which the US had their hands all over, Patrice Lumumba, first Prime Minister of the Democratic Republic of Congo to add to Allende of Chile and Mossedegh of Iran. They've been at it for years. Now an increasingly aggressive Russia and China are both eyeing up their own potential world dominance.

Casdon Sun 04-Jan-26 13:13:15

No, it was a completely different scenario, not a maverick action. If you watch Bush explaining the rationale, it’s clear it was done after years of failed attempts to resolve the situation. Oh for Trump to display one iota of Bush’s communication skills.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsIKRG0P6tk

Galaxy Sun 04-Jan-26 13:07:29

Different time. No social media. People might have been outraged but it wasn't the first thing we saw when we woke up.

TerriBull Sun 04-Jan-26 13:04:38

I'm just wondering if there was the same worldwide condemnation of George Bush Snr. back in the late 80s when Noriega of Panama was captured and flown to the US, Subsequently went on trial. Similar circumstances, but for the life of me I can't remember the furore around it, I imagine there must have been one.

Whitewavemark2 Sun 04-Jan-26 12:43:07

There is nothing moderate about Trump!

David49 Sun 04-Jan-26 12:40:30

Fallingstar

Ronib, Maduro may or may not be a drugs baron, joining other unscrupulous and corrupt leaders around the world,but the question should be is the president of the US allowed to go into another sovereign country and forcibly remove their leader before occupying said country?
Is this to become how leaders worldwide who don’t like another country’s leader are allowed to behave?
Think about that one because those leaders worldwide are watching what Trump has done very closely and taking notes no doubt.

The US has no intention of occupying Venezuela they want to see a moderate democratic government removing Maduro enables that.
They may well provide military support to moderates to achieve that because there are bound to be those who supported Maduro, drug cartels going to fight back for sure.

Boz Sun 04-Jan-26 12:05:29

It is obvious that the World is moving into a state where the most rich and powerful call the shots.

There is nothing to be done except watch how it plays out.

A case of Who Dares Wins with little chance of the
Meek Inheriting the Earth.