Is it wrong to identify as something you aren’t?

Depends. Someone identifying as a surgeon? Well yes, obviously (if they manage to get a job as a surgeon).

Casdon

The other cases aren’t irrelevant Allira, they are just other sides of the same coin. What the catfish was doing was illegal too, pretending to be someone else.

They’re not irrelevant but attempts are made to make them seem irrelevant by people excusing one case or another of claiming to be someone they aren’t.

Just read through the excuses even on this thread.

Then there are people who lie on their CV to get certain jobs which are often very high flying like psychiatrists, Head Teachers, Doctors, pilots etc.
Yes, like the one I worked with. Very plausible and I liked her.

One of my son’s mates is ex army and he gets really cross about these “Walter Mitty” characters who wear uniforms and medals when often they have never served our country or may have been kicked out in the first few weeks.

There is a WM Hunters Group I believe.

Then there are people who lie on their CV to get certain jobs which are often very high flying like psychiatrists, Head Teachers, Doctors, pilots etc.

Magenta8

I think people who pretend to be Rear Admirals are fairly harmless in comparison with people who pretend to be medical doctors* or qualified nurses.

I believe some people pretend to have PhDs or DPhils but that again seems relatively harmless.

Of course, it is morally wrong to pretend to have qualifications you don't have or to be something you are not.

*eg Gillian McKeith

Eg Rachel Reeves 😉

The other cases aren’t irrelevant Allira, they are just other sides of the same coin. What the catfish was doing was illegal too, pretending to be someone else.

The “admiral” was lying but he wasn’t hurting anyone, just offending them.

Thst is not the point.

The point is, what he has been doing for years is against the law.

The catfishing story is entirely different and all the comparisons posters keep making on this thread are irrelevant.

Casdon

On pretending to be someone you are not, I read this today, and it is one of the most bizarre cases I’ve ever heard of.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgkr15el67o

The “admiral” was lying but he wasn’t hurting anyone, just offending them.
The catfish was/is dangerous by stalking several people at a time, invading their lives and really frightening them

Yes I read that too Casdon, totally bizarre and almost unbelievable. Obviously a very disturbed individual.

On pretending to be someone you are not, I read this today, and it is one of the most bizarre cases I’ve ever heard of.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgkr15el67o

Mollygo

Galaxy

The idea that he would know what is damaging to women is hilarious.

Yes that’s true, but the idea that he thinks he does know and goes out of his way to do that is less amusing.

I’m still reeling from reading that being a great performer or a great artist or having written a great book is used as an excuse by people to justify men claiming to be something they’re not.

He might be lauded by some (Perry, I mean) but I find him utterly creepy.

Galaxy

The idea that he would know what is damaging to women is hilarious.

Yes that’s true, but the idea that he thinks he does know and goes out of his way to do that is less amusing.

I’m still reeling from reading that being a great performer or a great artist or having written a great book is used as an excuse by people to justify men claiming to be something they’re not.

I expect he has a BIG car, too...

But he was carrying a large sword.

Oh dear, was that toooooo rude?

Obviously that's where the fake Rear Admiral went wrong and why he ended up in court.
He wasn't displaying a fake penis.

Maremia- just read same article. I agree re intent to deceive - I posted about 8 January at 10.44

I listened to a fascinating podcast about a couple in America who pretended to be military veterans, they also pretended to be working for the CIA or something, I do wonder how the extreme pretenders get away with it. If someone told me they worked for the CIA my first instinct would be to disbelieve them.

'Pretending to be someone else.'
Have just read a long article about a serial 'catfisher', who has ended up in jail, for pretending online to be a charming doctor.
So, the intent to deceive, is considered in the sentencing.

I think The Descent of Man is a classic case of “Behold and be amazed at my original thinking - but kindly ignore my traditional, entitled male behaviour”.

Personally I rather dislike people whose actions don’t match their preaching. I always wonder are they deceiving us - or themselves.

For me, integrity is a crucial factor in art.

I haven't seen any SM media representations except those by feminists exploring hus behaviour. Feminism frequently explores the issues of boundaries, porn, etc,.

The idea that he would know what is damaging to women is hilarious.

I posted overseas example to show how ubiquitous representing the penis is: shown posters pages of vagina pix, when someone said, "oh but what about the vagine/vulva"

Given a broad idea of Graysons work as a whole, put it in historical context of "the artist as celeb" at that point in time:

I've said as much as I can usefully say, over to others. A lot of yesterdays remarks were prefaced on the assumption that children with cancer were attending the event, which of course turned out to be entirely false - beware SM presentations.

Perry has written a brilliant book called "the Descent of Man". In it he brings to light traditional ideas of masculinity and suggests they are punitive (to women as well as selves) and restrictive.

This page shows the book but also a clip from it, well worth a read. I've read the whole book, some time ago: it takes apart traditional masculinity and the damage it does.

www.penguinrandomhouse.ca/books/554644/the-descent-of-man-by-grayson-perry/9780143131656/excerpt

I do enjoy the fact that it is ok for a man to wear a dildo in public ( he himself having described the sexual thrill he gets from cross dressing) but that it is is somehow questionable for women to question this behaviour because they did it some years after the event.

Rosie51

The other adults at the 2007 event hadn't consented to be a part of his fetish, but he involved them any way. The actions of a man who puts his own needs above any consideration for others, just like the man who waggles his penis in front of unsuspecting women and girls in the park.
Wyllow I'm not stupid, I know there are vulvas in art as well as in pornography but you obviously couldn't find a photo of little children proudly holding their plastic vulvas on sticks.

You now say that the incident in 2007 wasn't GP's finest hour because it wasn't art but earlier you were defending it as art?

Well put Rosie51

Wyllow3
Then there was the Kanamara Matsuri, Festival of the Steel Phallus, Wakamiya Hachiman-Gu shrine in Kawasaki, Japan, 2006...

Wow! You seem to be getting really desperate when you have to use Japanese culture to justify Grayson Perry’s art!

PS I know about the museum in Iceland, but as has already been said, it’s my choice to go and see a lot of dead things, with or without my family. It’s not something that is forced on me