Woman shot and killed by ICE officers in Minneapolis, Minnesota

DAR

I could not agree more, you’ve nailed it.

Lest we Forget, the motto of our own Remembrance Services, is very powerful, both my parents were in the services and as a young child we were based in Düsseldorf. My mother was evacuated to Derbyshire from Essex, alone, as a young child. The memories of her war never left her.

We look back to past wrongdoings and conflicts in order to learn, to never repeat those atrocities.

Our grandfathers, great uncles etc fought in WW2 for the freedom and future of the entire world, for all races, nationalities, genders, etc., not simply our own.

Maybe this is why Trump’s “Make American great again” “America First”, does not ring true for many of us, compassion and tolerance and freedom for all is the mantra many of us live by.

Obviously, not violent criminals etc, I’m
not in any way condoning illegal crime or vile behaviour by anyone.

Mamie

Every country who fought as allies helped, but the one country without which World War 2 would not have been won, was Russia.

You are spot on!

Starfire57

DaisyAnneReturns

Reply to Starfire57 Tue 13-Jan-26 06:24:48

I would just gently point out that for many people in Britain, the experience of Nazism was very direct and very close to home. Bombing, invasion fears, occupation of nearby countries, and enormous civilian and military losses. That understandably shapes how some of us react to modern political language and behaviour.

So when British posters raise concerns, it isn’t about dismissing American service, but about speaking from a history that affected this country very personally.

I understand.

But the US lost so many husbands and sons, also remember the Japanese bombed Hawaii, which is not all that far from the California coast.

It caused a fear of invasion so intense that our country imprisoned Japanese Americans. So I get the concerns; however this was like 85 years ago!

Times and people have changed.....a lot......

I do understand what you’re saying, and I don’t want to minimise American losses or fear. Pearl Harbor and the Pacific war were traumatic, and the internment of Japanese Americans is something the US still rightly struggles with.

I think why some of us in Britain (and Europe more widely) come from a slightly different place is the sheer physical closeness of it all. The English Channel at its narrowest is about 20 miles wide. German-occupied territory wasn’t across an ocean — it was visible. The Channel Islands, including Jersey, were actually occupied by Germany. Bombing wasn’t theoretical; cities were reduced to rubble.

I was born in Hamburg after the war, while it was still being rebuilt from near-total destruction. My father had been posted to Germany in 1945, soon accompanied by family. We didn’t return home until 1953. That long aftermath — occupation, displacement, rebuilding — is part of why the war doesn’t feel like something neatly finished for many European families.

When I later asked my father how Hitler had been allowed to take power, the answer he heard most often from Germans he knew was, “We didn’t know.” Not because they were stupid or evil, but because they had been told, reassured, and gradually conditioned to trust their leaders and distrust everyone else.

I’ve heard very similar things in recent years from people leaving movements like Brexit or MAGA — not that the situations are identical, but that the mechanism of belief can feel uncomfortably familiar.

So when some of us react strongly to certain language or political behaviour today, it isn’t about living in the past or dismissing American experience. It’s about recognising patterns that, for our families and our countries, once had catastrophic consequences — including for Germany itself.

And perhaps that’s why I worry not only about Europe, but about my American family too.

You are absolutely correct, Mamie, it is Russia to whom we owe the greatest debt for the Allies success in 1945.

Every country who fought as allies helped, but the one country without which World War 2 would not have been won, was Russia.

Grandmabatty

If you don't know who someone is, either inform yourself or don't comment.

Harsh!!

Cossy

If we are going to talk about WW2 we would do well to remember that the USA only came in after the bombing if Pearl Harbour, I’m not down playing their contribution, but out of all countries USA had significantly fewer deaths and casualties.

No don’t downplay it, as we would have lost the war without them and have real fascists in power here now.

That’s a giant leap of your imagination Cossy

Syracute

Starfire : The vast amount of protestors are peaceful and the last days have proven that as there are literally hundreds and sometimes thousands protesting. There will always be a minority who push the envelope. People in the UK also protest and the difference is no one has to worry about being shot dead.

I agree.

Perhaps some on here think protestors should be dealt like those currently protesting Iran, one could ask those protesters, but very sadly many of them are now dead!

Saying an event happened 85 years ago and we’ve moved and changed, is a nonsense, in some senses we’ve learned nothing from history.

We are far closer to Germany than the USA and were far more affected and some of our territories close by were occupied, Jersey, as well as our close allies, France.

I don’t think, frankly, any USA citizen can tell us anything about Nazi’s that we don’t already know and which they, and their parents and grandparents, didn’t actually experience.

Many of us have parents who were evacuated and grandparents who fought in the war.

The simple fact, like it or not, is the actions and decisions of the current POTUS have far reaching real consequences across the world and many of these consequences are not positive.

How dare Trump and Vance criticise our country, stating we have lost the freedom of speech and our entire capital City is a no go zone due to stabbings and shariah law.

We have welcomed him to our country and given him a great reception and experience, in return he disrespected our then Queen and talked nonsense about our country, highly and perhaps permanently, damaging our so called “special relationship”

In my opinion, he’s a loose canon, surround by people egging him on to say and do more and more outlandish and illegal things and if he changes the constitution and is elected for a third term, god help us all.

LemonJam

StoneofDestiny yesterday 23.22- what uncanny similarities between the words of AH and Trump.

Hitler was not the only fascist leader in history. Mussolini- Italy, Dollfuss in Austria, Franco in Spain, Salazar in Portugal, Oswald Mosley in Britain etc.

They all shared several characteristics- they sourced their political strength from populations experiencing economic woes, real or imagined; immigrants, leftists and other groups become useful scapegoats. Redirecting their anger towards these people would, in their theory, rid a country of its ailments. To unify a country fascist movements propagate extreme nationalism that goes hand in hand with militarism and racial purity.

ICE, its strengthening by Trump, its incursion into democratic leader states, its actions, and this ICE officers killing raise those concerns for some..

Those fascist characteristics many on this thread see in Trump No one thus far has been willing to provide a counter argument that Trump does NOT show these fascist characteristics, instead tells them they are wrong, making comments such as "Fascism is thrown around so often now it's lost all meaning"- yesterday 11.14.

Thankfully it has not lost its meaning for the majority. Starfire57- what meaning does fascism have for you if any?

Well said !

If we are going to talk about WW2 we would do well to remember that the USA only came in after the bombing if Pearl Harbour, I’m not down playing their contribution, but out of all countries USA had significantly fewer deaths and casualties.

Mamie

Starfire57 you do realise that the vast majority of people on this forum for Grandparents are British don't you?
I suspect many of us will have had parents and siblings who understood the consequences of the fight against Facism by direct experience of fighting, or the deprivations of life on the Home Front and bombing.
This thread demonstrates that people are very concerned about recent events in America. Inevitably, you will have a different point of view, which you have already made very clear.

👏👏👏

Yes you're right WW I had no idea until I read your post. I suppose I shouldn't be shocked .

Unfortunately we do have to worry about being arrested and in some cases imprisoned.

As a result of our governments recent actions the U.K. has dropped down the rankings for human rights.

We must be for ever vigilant.

Starfire : The vast amount of protestors are peaceful and the last days have proven that as there are literally hundreds and sometimes thousands protesting. There will always be a minority who push the envelope. People in the UK also protest and the difference is no one has to worry about being shot dead.

Elegran

^"To me the real fears should be of gangs and terrorists, who are all too willing to hurt or kill us.^

Not our governments , which depend greatly on our support and vote."

If our governments encourage the violence by failing to check illegally aggressive methods by the organisations which carry out their wishes, they do not deserve our support or votes.

Indeed, If they are in fact illegally aggressive.

But nobody is going to expect an officer to sit and be attacked.

I have seen videos of very aggressive protesters. It is scary at times.

As long as they do not get physical the officers just take it.

But using your body or car to impede them, or attack them, well then you take your chances.

Know that and stay alive.

"To me the real fears should be of gangs and terrorists, who are all too willing to hurt or kill us.

Not our governments , which depend greatly on our support and vote."

If our governments encourage the violence by failing to check illegally aggressive methods by the organisations which carry out their wishes, they do not deserve our support or votes.

DaisyAnneReturns

Reply to Starfire57 Tue 13-Jan-26 06:24:48

I would just gently point out that for many people in Britain, the experience of Nazism was very direct and very close to home. Bombing, invasion fears, occupation of nearby countries, and enormous civilian and military losses. That understandably shapes how some of us react to modern political language and behaviour.

So when British posters raise concerns, it isn’t about dismissing American service, but about speaking from a history that affected this country very personally.

I would also gently point out that there was a very real possibility of Britain being invaded and subject to everything you mention. Some areas were bombed nightly and homes and infrastructure destroyed, the country had only a narrow strip of channel or airspace between us and occupied France, and Herr Schickelgruber/Hitler had a detailed plan ready for when his plans were successful. The US was further from the actual scene of war, so did not have that awrareness of imminent danger. It takes generations to forget that. Those who were adults at that time are now mostly gone, but as children those of us now our 80s knew what was going on, and what policies and attitudes had caused the war.

Oreo

Without American service we would have lost the war.
It’s the modern zeitgeist to moan about many people being like Hitler and that fascists are about to take over.It’s the fashionable equivalent to the Communist fears of the past, reds under the beds.
Right wing governments come and go as do left wing ones.
Trump will be replaced in just a few short years and under a Democrat POTUS policies can be reversed if that’s what they want.Actually they could be reversed even under a different Republican President if wanted.

Very, very true.

To me the real fears should be of gangs and terrorists, who are all too willing to hurt or kill us.

Not our governments , which depend greatly on our support and vote.

DaisyAnneReturns

Reply to Starfire57 Tue 13-Jan-26 06:24:48

I would just gently point out that for many people in Britain, the experience of Nazism was very direct and very close to home. Bombing, invasion fears, occupation of nearby countries, and enormous civilian and military losses. That understandably shapes how some of us react to modern political language and behaviour.

So when British posters raise concerns, it isn’t about dismissing American service, but about speaking from a history that affected this country very personally.

I understand.

But the US lost so many husbands and sons, also remember the Japanese bombed Hawaii, which is not all that far from the California coast.

It caused a fear of invasion so intense that our country imprisoned Japanese Americans. So I get the concerns; however this was like 85 years ago!

Times and people have changed.....a lot......

DaisyAnneReturns

Reply to Starfire57 Tue 13-Jan-26 06:24:48

I would just gently point out that for many people in Britain, the experience of Nazism was very direct and very close to home. Bombing, invasion fears, occupation of nearby countries, and enormous civilian and military losses. That understandably shapes how some of us react to modern political language and behaviour.

So when British posters raise concerns, it isn’t about dismissing American service, but about speaking from a history that affected this country very personally.

I would also add that many of us grew up with parents deeply traumatised by war.
The experience of my French friends is different again because they lived with occupation.

Without American service we would have lost the war.
It’s the modern zeitgeist to moan about many people being like Hitler and that fascists are about to take over.It’s the fashionable equivalent to the Communist fears of the past, reds under the beds.
Right wing governments come and go as do left wing ones.
Trump will be replaced in just a few short years and under a Democrat POTUS policies can be reversed if that’s what they want.Actually they could be reversed even under a different Republican President if wanted.

Hear hear Daisy Ann

Reply to Starfire57 Tue 13-Jan-26 06:24:48

I would just gently point out that for many people in Britain, the experience of Nazism was very direct and very close to home. Bombing, invasion fears, occupation of nearby countries, and enormous civilian and military losses. That understandably shapes how some of us react to modern political language and behaviour.

So when British posters raise concerns, it isn’t about dismissing American service, but about speaking from a history that affected this country very personally.