Woman shot and killed by ICE officers in Minneapolis, Minnesota

Oreo 22.41- it’s your choice if you have no counter argument and fascism has lost all meaning for you.

I always prefer to see the evidence people have used to form a judgement, and I’m far more likely to take notice of what they say than somebody who doesn’t. We are all different of course.

Cossy

Galaxy we must agree to disagree, which is fine

If only everyone could do the same instead of producing reams of stuff to prove how their own views are right and anyone who disagrees needs to produce even more reams of evidence it would be a very good thing.

Would you be able to tell us how he differs Galaxy?

LemonJam
We’re not in an Oxbridge debating society, or a court of law, it’s just a thread on a forum.
I’ve said what I think on the subject and won’t be troubling myself to give examples/ evidence 😄 on it thank you.
It worries me not what you or any other poster thinks.

Touche LemonJam

15.04 "A democratic election describes the way a leader is elected. Said leader then chooses their mode and style of leadership.

I challenge those that disagree Trump is authoritarian and showing fascist tendencies to define the following leadership styles:
1) democratic
2) authoritarian
3) fascist.

Then describe their view of Trump’s leadership/ governing style with examples"

Oreo 18.04: I wouldn’t call Trump a fascist at all, but then I don’t see them around every corner as some do. He’s narcissistic in my view and a typical businessman which isn’t always the best for a politician! He’s a Republican with some strong views and an overweaning sense of his own worth but Hitler he isn’t."

I didn't mention Hitler- are you trying to deflect again? A Narcissist Trump surely is, the large majority on this thread- if not all would agree with you Oreo. Definition- a person characterised by an inflated sense of self importance, grandiosity and a strong sense for admiration, often lacking in empathy and exploiting others for personal gain, with a focus on "me" rather than "we"- ultimately driven by ego and power rather than genuine concern for constituents, creating environments of imbalance and fear. Exploitative, self absorbed, fragile ego, sense of entitlement etc.

I'm curious however why you have deflected again from the consideration and challenge on where Trump fits on the continuum between a democratic leader through to an authoritarian or fascist leader. Not just you it has to be said.

Are you willing/able to describe and define your view on what constitutes a democratic, authoritarian and fascist leader- or anything in between? You say "Fascism is thrown around so often now that it's lost all meaning" - 11.14. but fail to clarify your meaning.

When posters have provided their definition of a fascist leader etc and given examples of Trump's action to justify/example/evidence their assertions - you then reject and deflect. You choose not to provide any explicit specific counter argument. In the absence of you being willing/able to provide your definition of Trump as a democratic v authoritarian v fascist leader, with examples of his actions to justify/example/evidence your assertion, you are at high risk- in your own words 17.58 of being seen as a poster who "has run out of counter arguments".

Galaxy we must agree to disagree, which is fine

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

No it doesn't.

Oreo

I wouldn’t call Trump a fascist at all, but then I don’t see them around every corner as some do.
He’s narcissistic in my view and a typical businessman which isn’t always the best for a politician! He’s a Republican with some strong views and an overweaning sense of his own worth but Hitler he isn’t.

Simply cannot agree! Wanting to buy countries who are not for sale, when rebuffed threatens to invade take what he wants by force? Clearly doesn’t like various nationalities, derides disabled people, puts children in separate detentions to their parents, signs dozens and dozens executive orders in a short period of time and also incites hatred? Spreads propaganda?

Sounds quite like Hitler!

Allira

Syracute

petra

Starfire57
Surely you must realise that these Anchor babies have been subsidising your cheap food through their low paid long hours jobs.

www.ilr.cornell.edu/mobilizing-against-inequality/post/five-ways-undocumented-immigrants-are-powering-american-economy

What does anchor babies have to do with anything e crept your personal obsession. Derailment of thread.

Whose obsession?

Surely this has rather a lot to do with the subject matter?
Immigration?
ICE = U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

But not just about immigration policy as abstract law, it’s about how that policy is enacted in real life, on this occasion with life-or-death consequences. It's broader than the focus you suggest. Discussions about Trump, his Presidential style, law enforcement, and immigration enforcement are all relevant.

ronib

Thank you MaizieD. So for any president to attempt a rethink of this particular policy has to be an improvement? Even if the name is Trump?

I checked this with Chatgtp. My brief analysis was along the right lines, I just didn't take it as far.

Here is AI's response

Start

Donald Trump has pushed the Federal Reserve to lower interest rates for a few interconnected economic and political reasons. The core logic is fairly straightforward, but the motivations overlap.

1. Faster economic growth
Lower interest rates make borrowing cheaper for businesses and consumers. Trump has consistently argued that cheaper credit:

Encourages companies to invest and expand

Makes mortgages, car loans, and credit cards cheaper

Boosts consumer spending

All of this can raise GDP growth and lower unemployment—metrics he often points to as proof of economic success.

2. Stronger stock market
Lower rates tend to push investors toward stocks rather than bonds, which can drive equity prices higher. Trump has frequently treated stock market performance as a public scoreboard for the economy, so rate cuts support that narrative.

3. Cheaper government borrowing
The U.S. government carries a very large national debt. Lower interest rates reduce the cost of servicing that debt, easing pressure on federal finances—especially when deficits are high.

4. A weaker dollar helps exporters
Higher interest rates usually strengthen the U.S. dollar. Trump has often complained that a strong dollar hurts American manufacturers and exporters by making U.S. goods more expensive overseas. Lower rates can weaken the dollar and make exports more competitive.

5. Political incentives
Presidents generally benefit from short-term economic strength, especially heading into elections. While the Fed is designed to be independent, Trump openly favored looser monetary policy because it supported near-term growth rather than long-term inflation control.

6. Different view of inflation risk
Trump has repeatedly argued that inflation risks were overstated and that the Fed was being “too tight.” From his perspective, the economy could run hotter without triggering dangerous inflation.

End

It grieves me to say it, of course, but I think that Trump is thinking on the right lines to benefit diverse sections of the population.

Incidentally, I think that the Bank of England should be reducing interest rates for some of the same reasons

Maremia

A Mafia boss. Thanks Casdon. I have heard that description before.

I don’t think the mafia would have him, they have a code of honor

It's ana interesting article, Casdon. But It's pointing out that Trump uses fascist techniques to attach his followers, as (Uberto) Eco points out

Eco, the multi-faceted scholar who spent his childhood in Mussolini’s Italy, drew up a general checklist of features of “Ur-Fascism”. Trump has been ticking them off. He regularly treats disagreement as “treason”, and leads what Eco calls “the cult of action for action’s sake”.

(I won't copy more as the FT does have a paywall)

Thomas Weber (who concludes he's more like a Mafia boss) might point out points of difference, but I think that the use of fascist methodology is significant as it is that which creates his following, without which he would not be President.

I'm posting a gift link to the article, but it can only be activated 3 times, so first come, first served...

giftarticle.ft.com/giftarticle/actions/redeem/008d0d69-2007-4bad-b887-0b23e81761c7

Maremia

Yes, again, David.
Also, not typical, in that he has gone bankrupt a few times, or was that just a ploy to avoid payments?
And some folk still believe he is good for the country.

Strange how people overlook his bankruptcies. Or the fact that he’s only where he is now thanks to his father’s money. And that wasn’t earned very scrupulously I believe?

A Mafia boss. Thanks Casdon. I have heard that description before.

David49

Oreo

I wouldn’t call Trump a fascist at all, but then I don’t see them around every corner as some do.
He’s narcissistic in my view and a typical businessman which isn’t always the best for a politician! He’s a Republican with some strong views and an overweaning sense of his own worth but Hitler he isn’t.

Not a typical business man, deal with him and you will get screwed, there are plenty of ways to make money without dealing with crooks. He is not someone you can trust, ideal qualifications for politics

Well he does like a deal 😜

You can override the subscription, it let me just scroll down below the box asking you to sign up, so I could read the article. The conclusion is that Trump most equates in the way he operates to a Mafia boss.

Yes, again, David.
Also, not typical, in that he has gone bankrupt a few times, or was that just a ploy to avoid payments?
And some folk still believe he is good for the country.

Thanks Casdon, for the link, but it wants me to subscribe.
In summary, what does that publication believe?

Oreo

I wouldn’t call Trump a fascist at all, but then I don’t see them around every corner as some do.
He’s narcissistic in my view and a typical businessman which isn’t always the best for a politician! He’s a Republican with some strong views and an overweaning sense of his own worth but Hitler he isn’t.

Not a typical business man, deal with him and you will get screwed, there are plenty of ways to make money without dealing with crooks. He is not someone you can trust, ideal qualifications for politics

I read a very good article in the Financial Times the other day about whether or not Trump can be defined as a fascist.
www.ft.com/content/36107e28-efc8-4fb8-8283-1cd2f312f2ff

I wouldn’t call Trump a fascist at all, but then I don’t see them around every corner as some do.
He’s narcissistic in my view and a typical businessman which isn’t always the best for a politician! He’s a Republican with some strong views and an overweaning sense of his own worth but Hitler he isn’t.

The meaning of fascism is sadly still clear.