Woman shot and killed by ICE officers in Minneapolis, Minnesota

I think we have changed our laws here in the UK so that having a baby on ‘British Soil’ no longer confers citizenship.

Cossy

Starters for ten!

Various sources

*Donald Trump has pursued various actions, primarily through executive orders and legal challenges, that constitutional scholars and legal experts argue attempt to undermine or violate several U.S. Constitutional laws and principles, including. These actions often faced immediate legal challenges, with many being temporarily blocked by federal courts.
Key U.S. constitutional areas that Trump has attempted to affect include:
Fourteenth Amendment (Citizenship and Equal Protection)
Trump has repeatedly attempted to end birthright citizenship—the principle that all individuals born on U.S. soil are citizens—through executive action. This principle is explicitly guaranteed by the Citizenship Clause of the 14th Amendment and has been upheld by over a century of Supreme Court precedent, including in the case of United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898).
His administration's actions regarding diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives have also been challenged as potentially violating the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.
Separation of Powers
Several of Trump's actions have raised concerns regarding the constitutional separation of powers among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches:
Congressional Power of the Purse (Article I): Trump has been accused of attempting to unconstitutionally impound (freeze) congressionally-appropriated funds, which legal experts argue undermines Congress's sole power to control federal spending.
Judicial Authority: Concerns have been raised about potential defiance of court orders and the "weaponization" of data for enforcement purposes, which critics argue challenges the judiciary's authority and due process rights guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment.
Executive Overreach: Legal challenges to numerous executive orders argue that the president is exceeding the scope of his executive authority under Article II of the Constitution.
Individual Rights and Due Process
Actions affecting fundamental individual rights have also been a point of contention:
Due Process (Fifth Amendment): Actions such as the proposed use of the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 to allow arrests without standard due process and the summary removal of individuals have been cited as potential violations of the right to due process.
First Amendment (Free Speech): Efforts to target specific law firms for their association with political opponents, or to influence content moderation online, have raised concerns about infringing upon free speech rights.
The majority of these actions have faced immediate legal challenges and many have been temporarily or permanently blocked by federal courts across the country.*

First off, your own post kinda proved my point that we are not headed towards fascism with President Trump. Courts did block some actions. Didn't I mention our checks and balances worked?

My point was the frenzy over Trump is uncalled for.

Past presidents have tried things too and there have been changes to our constitution and laws as a result.

And for petes sake, it is not at all that shocking about his want to change birth right citizenship.....people have been screaming about wanting that for years!

Its a loophole that has been greatly taken advantage of with the Anchor babies!

In my parents neighborhood there was a house sold and walking through it there were cribs all over the place!! Turns out it was being used as anchor baby house. We were shocked. This was only one average neighborhood.

These are everywhere and are illegal to operate as a business in a residential neighborhood.

Our forefathers never anticipated such a misuse of the birthright clause.

We have a little thing called amendments to correct flaws or address and update our constitution...it was designed that way.

But a president cannot do it alone. Congress needs to pass an amendment.

I can tell you most of us Americans want an end to the whole anchor baby thing.

This isn't something Trump just made up willy nilly. This controversy been going on for years and years....

But you in the UK dont have to worry about anchor babies, do you, since you guys already do not have birthright citizenship unless one parent is a citizen!

That's what we want too.

So that and many other things Trump is doing, including the funds/money control etc is because people are tired of being ripped off in this country in more ways than one !

LemonJam

Starfire57- looking forward to your view on the definition of faascism and the examples of Trump's behaviour to demonstrate.

Falling back on the excuse he was "democratically elected" is deflection and not relevant to the facts of his authoritarian rule.

It’s not deflection at all, it’s key to this fascist accusation in your own interpretation above on this thread, where you use the word dictator.
The American people voted for him ( twice) and very many of them like his America first ethos.
He won’t be able to stand for a third term but it’s a possibility that the Republicans are elected again, it’s the people’s choice who live there.
Fascism is thrown around so often now that it’s losing all meaning.

Starfire57- looking forward to your view on the definition of faascism and the examples of Trump's behaviour to demonstrate.

Falling back on the excuse he was "democratically elected" is deflection and not relevant to the facts of his authoritarian rule.

Allira

The First Amendment?

We still have that. Nobody's been arrested or jailed by the government for speech that I know of...

Starfire57

Also, the thing about Greenland. I don't know if you are aware but many, many mexican groups think they should take back the western states because they were "stolen"

You know, the states that the United States government legally purchased from Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo

Bought and paid for. Not stolen. And, graciously allowed any Mexican citizen to stay and get instant citizenship, if they so choose.

Not a bad deal for the losing side in the Mexican-American War.

And this has what to do with Trump wishing to “take” (his words) Greenland?

A country owned by Denmark, which is not for sale and neither the people of Greeenland or Denmark wish to sell or be owned by America?

Starters for ten!

Various sources

*Donald Trump has pursued various actions, primarily through executive orders and legal challenges, that constitutional scholars and legal experts argue attempt to undermine or violate several U.S. Constitutional laws and principles, including. These actions often faced immediate legal challenges, with many being temporarily blocked by federal courts.
Key U.S. constitutional areas that Trump has attempted to affect include:
Fourteenth Amendment (Citizenship and Equal Protection)
Trump has repeatedly attempted to end birthright citizenship—the principle that all individuals born on U.S. soil are citizens—through executive action. This principle is explicitly guaranteed by the Citizenship Clause of the 14th Amendment and has been upheld by over a century of Supreme Court precedent, including in the case of United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898).
His administration's actions regarding diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) initiatives have also been challenged as potentially violating the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.
Separation of Powers
Several of Trump's actions have raised concerns regarding the constitutional separation of powers among the executive, legislative, and judicial branches:
Congressional Power of the Purse (Article I): Trump has been accused of attempting to unconstitutionally impound (freeze) congressionally-appropriated funds, which legal experts argue undermines Congress's sole power to control federal spending.
Judicial Authority: Concerns have been raised about potential defiance of court orders and the "weaponization" of data for enforcement purposes, which critics argue challenges the judiciary's authority and due process rights guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment.
Executive Overreach: Legal challenges to numerous executive orders argue that the president is exceeding the scope of his executive authority under Article II of the Constitution.
Individual Rights and Due Process
Actions affecting fundamental individual rights have also been a point of contention:
Due Process (Fifth Amendment): Actions such as the proposed use of the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 to allow arrests without standard due process and the summary removal of individuals have been cited as potential violations of the right to due process.
First Amendment (Free Speech): Efforts to target specific law firms for their association with political opponents, or to influence content moderation online, have raised concerns about infringing upon free speech rights.
The majority of these actions have faced immediate legal challenges and many have been temporarily or permanently blocked by federal courts across the country.*

Syracute 10.08: "Well said Wyllow . Trump’s latest manoevre with the Federal Reserve is his latest cudgel. He will batter and threaten anyone and that person now is Jerome Powell.

Trump is not interested in Democracy nor respects it.
If you disagree he will use his battering ram of verbal threats, lawsuits, firing when he can.

If Starfire wants to ignore the fact that Trump is leaning hard into fascism let’s review the definition :

Fascism is a far right, authoritarian political ideology emphasizing extreme nationalism, militarism, and a strong centralized autocratic government led by a dictator, prioritizing the nation or race above the individual and suppressing opposition through force.

Trump definitely fits the bill".

👏 👏 👏 Starfire is blinded to Trump's fascism.

The First Amendment?

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Wyllow3

One key reason:

Trump constantly seeks to overturn the rule of law as embodied in the Constitution.

The Supreme Court, which is politically and solidly naturally inclined towards the Right has had to intervene and it has lost Republican support in many quarters because of this.

Believing you have the god given right to overturn the very Constitution itself by diktats

Cannot be other than the mark of tyrannical rule, enforced by military means or the threat of them, is a move that has been taken by tyrants before.

Which constitutional laws?

Yes, that is quite right.

Casdon

But of course, Galaxy, the opposite approach doesn’t work either. That’s why there are now widespread protests against Trump, and other oppressive right wing regimes, it would happen here if Farage was in charge in the UK too. The truth is that the only political system that can succeed long term is one of compromise, the middle ground.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

Maremia

I think what Trump is doing goes well beyond a 'perceived threat of fascism'.

Me too, but I’m not going to waste any more valuable time arguing with people like Starfire57 I don’t belueve they represent many Americans views, beliefs and morals, and I cannot agree with their assertions around Trump.

We lived in the USA for just over a year many many years ago, I was only 15. My Dad did business with a few deep Southern States, I still have friends and family spread across the USA (& Canada).

I used to love the USA and holidayed there frequently, whilst Trump is there none of my immediate family will visit.

Starfire57 may have differing views, however we in the UK have legitimate fears and are perfectly at liberty to express them, far from their current POTUS view that we across the pond are prevented from using “freedom of speech”, it’s far more likely to happen back in his homeland, due to his skewed idea of governing and dictatorial leadership.

Btw way I do not recall ANY former POTUS using their powers of “pardoning” in quite the same way as Trump.

Our current, and previous governments are far from perfect, we need an answer to stopping illegal immigration, however there are ways to do this which don’t include terrorising and/or killing our own legal citizens.

Well said Wyllow .

Trump’s latest manoevre with the Federal Reserve is his latest cudgel. He will batter and threaten anyone and that person now is Jerome Powell.

Trump is not interested in Democracy nor respects it.
If you disagree he will use his battering ram of verbal threats, lawsuits, firing when he can.

If Starfire wants to ignore the fact that Trump is leaning hard into fascism let’s review the definition :

Fascism is a far right, authoritarian political ideology emphasizing extreme nationalism, militarism, and a strong centralized autocratic government led by a dictator, prioritizing the nation or race above the individual and suppressing opposition through force.

Trump definitely fits the bill.

A second reason: he is surrounding himself with cronies, brown noses, many of whom have inadequate experience to do the work they are appointed to.

A good example of this is Walt Nauta.

Nauta served in the U.S. Navy as a culinary specialist and later as a personal valet to President Trump during his time in the White House. After Trump's term ended, Nauta left the Navy and continued to work as his personal aide or "body man" at the Mar-a-Lago club and residence.

He was a co-defendant with Donald Trump in the federal classified documents case. Prosecutors accused him of moving boxes containing classified documents at Trump's direction to conceal them from federal investigators and a Trump attorney, and of lying to the FBI.

Trump appointed him to Board of Visitors to the U.S. Naval Academy in March 2025.

One key reason:

Trump constantly seeks to overturn the rule of law as embodied in the Constitution.

The Supreme Court, which is politically and solidly naturally inclined towards the Right has had to intervene and it has lost Republican support in many quarters because of this.

Believing you have the god given right to overturn the very Constitution itself by diktats

Cannot be other than the mark of tyrannical rule, enforced by military means or the threat of them, is a move that has been taken by tyrants before.

Maremia

I think what Trump is doing goes well beyond a 'perceived threat of fascism'.

Oooh, really, how so?

Casdon - we can only hope and even 🙏🏽 that compromise and the middle ground can become sought after.

But of course, Galaxy, the opposite approach doesn’t work either. That’s why there are now widespread protests against Trump, and other oppressive right wing regimes, it would happen here if Farage was in charge in the UK too. The truth is that the only political system that can succeed long term is one of compromise, the middle ground.

David is completely right, it is what happens when a 'left' party embrace identity politics and ignore the fairly mainstream views of a large section of people. I am not sure how many times it is going to happen before people say oh I see.
I would also add that opposition parties saying Trump/Farage/ insert relevant name are fascists doesn't work either.

Trump getting elected was due to his lies about 'America First'.
His voters thought he meant for them.
His grifting has shown he meant it for himself.
I do agree with your final statement David.

I think what Trump is doing goes well beyond a 'perceived threat of fascism'.

Trump getting elected was the result of ultra liberal policies of the Democrats, that’s what happens in a democracy extreme in one way results on extreme reaction in the opposite.

In the same way the incompetence of the Tories resulted in a massive victory for Labour, the majority don’t like the new policies either, but at least Starmer is a better diplomat than Trump.

MayBee70

Starfire57

MayBee70

How far do you want to go back to? Perhaps to the time when the settlers stole America from the Native Americans and treated them like dirt?

Idk, you tell me. Like , no settlers were killed by Native Americans either? My point is, all across the world, people went to war over land. This is the history of the world and nobody alive today played a part in it.

It's how our civilizations were born, through hostile takeovers. Everywhere, literally every place on the globe.

Stop blaming people now. It is what it is, nobody is going to change that basic fact.

Governments are powerful, established and laws are there, and if you are lucky to live in democratic countries, at least you have a vote on it.

If the vote doesn't go your way, that doesn't mean others votes don't count.

All the talk of the "loss of democracy" in the US is literally trying to undo that very vote of the majority, the vote in a free democratic election. It's a desperate attempt by the losing side. It might work, might not.

Trump will leave office after 2 more years. He's not coming back. But, if his policies end up making the country better, he may have a successor who will continue them. Or not, and then someone with a different vision will be elected.

I can't predict the future.

We will see, because again, it's up to the democracy, the vote we have established and what will always be in the US.

The hysteria over the perceived threat of fascism in the US is astounding, like some weird mental illness taking over.

Our constitution, our system of checks and balances have stood the test of time since 1776.

I really, really think the entitlement attitudes of today are leading to people who want hand picking of the laws they choose to obey or not obey.

Or no laws might be a wish of some. I really don't know, but I do know people should be careful what they wish for.

Your constitution, system of checks and balances has thrown up a president like Trump. Someone that can pardon murderers ( how do you feel about convicted criminals being pardoned by the way?) and does so, can veto anything that congress passes and is talking about changing the rules so he can stand for a third term. And, believe me he will try to do that unless his health prevents it.

That is utter poppycock.. He cannot and will not.

Pardons and vetos, all part of any president's term and power. Not new.

I am guessing, he would love to change the rules but he knows that would take an act of Congress, which just isn't going to happen.