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Woman shot and killed by ICE officers in Minneapolis, Minnesota

(985 Posts)
Syracute Thu 08-Jan-26 10:27:26

Yesterday there was a very tragic shooting of a woman leaving the scene of an Immigration raid/incident . The video clips are very disturbing as she is shot and killed by an officer after she was given conflicting information by two officers . One who told her to leave and another who told her to get out of the car.
She was killed by a third officer who was to the side of the car . I can only advise you not to watch the clip if you feel it might be disturbing . I was able to read a good account of it in the NYT and it definitely looks and reads like she was murdered.
She was a white, US citizen not a target of the raid.

I truly feel like the USA is imploding from the inside out and that Trump is creating fires of danger everywhere.

Starfire57 Fri 16-Jan-26 20:20:22

Elegran

Perhaps the presence of the police force inhibits the most impulsive acts of ice agents? Or they concentrate on the "catching illegal immigrants" part of the job, and leave dealing with protestors and observers to the police, who have more experience in that, and longer and more in-depth training in keeping their cool under stress.

I think it's the latter. Without having to deal with protesters yelling at them, throwing things, getting in their way, obstructing, they can actually just do the job and leave.

DaisyAnneReturns Fri 16-Jan-26 20:11:12

Starfire57

Well I saw a report that the states that are having their police force backing up ICE are simply not having all these problems Minneapolis is. Perhaps the leaders should be blamed for all this as well.

Perhaps the police are keeping ICE in line?

imaround Fri 16-Jan-26 20:10:40

www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2026/01/15/ice-detention-death-homicide/

imaround Fri 16-Jan-26 19:58:44

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ice-approaching-people-minneapolis-demanding-proof-citizenship-rcna254247

imaround Fri 16-Jan-26 19:32:57

www.fox9.com/news/border-patrol-chief-was-outright-lying-about-previous-ice-surge

Elegran Fri 16-Jan-26 13:28:34

I acidentally came across this link to the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement Online Detainee Locator System, where anyone can find out where a specific detainee is being kept. locator.ice.gov/odls/#/search

It could be useful passed on to anyone with an immigrant friend or relative in the US who cannot be contacted or may have been taken by ICE.

There is also a list of Detention Centres, with their addresses and photographs, at www.ice.gov/detention-facilities It also has "About us" pages, and information about Immigration Enforcement and Combating Transnational Crime.

LemonJam Fri 16-Jan-26 12:30:56

WWM2 8.46- good post.

Elegran 11.36- I agree- keeping cool under stress and appropriate training are critical for officers who carry guns as deadly weapons. Officers carrying deadly weapons need to have the training, skills and emotional stability to be able to make effective quick determinations about threat levels. They need to act and comply within the Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) policy on the use of deadly force.

Under DHS policy, agents are authorised to use deadly force if they believe they are at risk of death, imminent threat of death or grievous bodily harm. DHS policy has a specific clause that states officers can not fire at a moving vehicle unless someone in the car is threatening the officer or unless the vehicle is "operated in a manner that threatens to cause death or serious physical injury" AND "no other objectively reasonable means of defence appear to exist, which includes moving out of the path of the vehicle". The incident investigation- hopefully will explore and determine these issues.

Even if officials investigating determine Ross's shot first against Good was justified , objectively it will be harder to justify the second and third shots Ross fired as Good's vehicle pulled away from him.

The DHS has a shooting review board. The DHS Secretary said on public record the shooting was justified, the POTUS and VP have also publicly stated it was justified and VP- all in the immediate aftermath of the deadly shots, with incorrect factual elements and before investigation had started. The DHS shooting board is going to be hard pressed to look at the facts in isolation in those circumstances.

I read the CNN news article link in 2.28 post re Illinois and Minnesota separately fling lawsuits on Monday this week over immigration enforcement they call "unlawful and unconstitutional". The District judge decided not to issue a temporary restraining order to Minnesota but said her decision should "not be considered a pre judgement". She highlighted this lawsuit presents 'somewhat frontier issues in constitutional law".

As the CNN legal advisor outlined, whatever the lawsuits' chance of success, large or small, in uncharted circumstances without legal precedence, it is realistic to hope the judges who will hear the cases when they come to court will put ICE through its paces, calling witnesses, officials as witnesses, probes into ICE's training, policies and tactics and issues some sort of declaration that ICE needs to do things differently or better.

In all the circumstances we should not have to wait too long for these cases to come to court. Will be interesting to see how that dynamic plays out alongside DHS shooting board pronouncements.

Oreo Fri 16-Jan-26 11:48:10

Elegran

Perhaps the presence of the police force inhibits the most impulsive acts of ice agents? Or they concentrate on the "catching illegal immigrants" part of the job, and leave dealing with protestors and observers to the police, who have more experience in that, and longer and more in-depth training in keeping their cool under stress.

Possibly a bit of both, and of course the effect that being police around where the protesters are has a sobering effect on them so they don’t even try and obstruct.
All they want to do is to catch illegal immigrants, but it makes it so much harder if they have to deal with a crowd as well.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 16-Jan-26 11:45:28

Yes elegran I do agree that the presence of a police force does inhibit ICE’s worst excesses.

The problem with the twin cities is that ICE has flooded the area to the extent that they outnumber the police by a considerable number and the restraining factor is not there.

Elegran Fri 16-Jan-26 11:36:23

Perhaps the presence of the police force inhibits the most impulsive acts of ice agents? Or they concentrate on the "catching illegal immigrants" part of the job, and leave dealing with protestors and observers to the police, who have more experience in that, and longer and more in-depth training in keeping their cool under stress.

Starfire57 Fri 16-Jan-26 10:41:42

Well I saw a report that the states that are having their police force backing up ICE are simply not having all these problems Minneapolis is. Perhaps the leaders should be blamed for all this as well.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 16-Jan-26 08:58:51

So looking further into the possibility of Trump calling an insurrection and using the military on the suburban streets of the USA.

A couple of thoughts.

The pentagon is apparently feeling very queasy about the use of troops.

Trump failed to call an insurrection on Jan6th, at a time of an attempted coup.

A senior Lecturer at Harvard has written an “explainer”

Q: What is the Insurrection Act?
The Insurrection Act is authorized by the insurrection provision of the Constitution, which basically says the president can call forth the militia in an insurrection. But insurrection is not defined.

The act itself tries to define the term, but its language is not clear because civil unrest, an inability to execute the law, is very, very vague.

What people need to understand is that it is used to get around the Posse Comitatus Act passed after the Civil War, which prohibits the military from being utilized for law enforcement purposes.

The Posse Comitatus Act says if you use the military in the United States for, say, a disaster, they cannot have law enforcement functions. They essentially cannot arrest.

The Insurrection Act basically says the president can use the military for law enforcement purposes. That is a use of the military that has never been part of the way we think about ourselves.

Q: How has the Insurrection Act been used before?
Since its inception, fifteen presidents have used it. In modern times, presidents used it during the civil rights era when governors in some states were ignoring the Supreme Court rulings on desegregation. It was used again in 1992 to quell riots following the Rodney King verdict, at the request of California Governor Pete Wilson.

During Hurricane Katrina, again the governor of Louisiana asked. Interestingly enough, President Bush did not invoke the Insurrection Act. He believed the military was better suited in its support function, rather than overwhelming civil society.

It is important to understand that it has been used, but presidents have used it in very different circumstances than the way Trump is thinking. If Hurricane Katrina is your benchmark for deployment, then the perception of rising crime rates in New York, Boston, or Los Angeles doesn’t meet the mark.

Q: How is this administration thinking about the Insurrection Act?
My understanding is that Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth would be prepared to deploy the military, as a law enforcement entity, in a number of cities, most of them in blue states, where there is a perception of high crime. President Trump campaigned on lower crime in our cities.

There is a sentiment in the Pentagon that employees are nervous because they were raised not to go to war with us, with civilians. That’s how they are trained. That is how they understand the mission.

And I want to clear about this: the military is totally integrated in supporting communities when they need them. Whether it was Hurricane Katrina or during an Olympics, they are there. The idea that their vast resources aren’t used is a misunderstanding of how the local, state, and federal capacity is aligned.

What we saw with the National Guard in D.C. illustrated this. An insurrection means state government can’t work; that’s the way it is defined in the Insurrection Act. And yet federal troops were deployed, and what did they do? They picked up trash. It is so expensive to deploy the military in this way. There is now a sense that this expansive definition of an insurrection could extend to the mid-term elections, where this administration can deploy the military to cities simply to intimidate voting.

This president would use the Insurrection Act in a disruptive and antagonistic way against communities and local leadership.

Q: The riot at the Capitol on January 6 has been called an insurrection. Why do you think it wasn’t invoked then when Trump was president?
He did not invoke it, and we now know from the January 6th commission, that he spent hours talking about the riots on social media before he was finally convinced to address them. Now we have seen him give pardons to people convicted during the insurrection. It is clear; he believes an insurrection only exists if it prevents his retention of power.

When I look at what makes American democracy unique, it our constitutional structure that has a clear division between civilian authorities and military authorities.

Trump’s casual invocation of the Insurrection Act is very unique for a number of reasons. Under no circumstances could you call the crime rate in our cities an “insurrection” as it is understood in the Insurrection Act. He uses it to assert executive power over states, against the consent of a governor.

We have a president who wants to use the military as an extension of law enforcement. That’s a significant change. And we should be wary about this sort of casualness in which he disrupts that constitutional order.

Juliette Keyyem

Oreo Fri 16-Jan-26 08:46:23

The US has a huge illegal immigrant problem as do we here in the UK and the rest of Europe no doubt.If it isn’t cracked down on it will continue getting worse and worse.In my view all the governments of the countries have a duty to try and stop it and come down hard on this problem.
As far as the US is concerned, since so many carry guns, both those in authority and citizens and illegal immigrants all being capable of having them then it adds a more dangerous dimension to the whole thing.Immigration officers there have been attacked so nerves will be high on the streets where they operate and then add the factor that they can be surrounded by a heckling crowd and obstruction as well.

petra Fri 16-Jan-26 08:45:40

Oreo

Starfire57

You know, I was watching another video of the shooting and realized, beforehand he was standing to the right side of her vehicle, not directly in front of her......so when she started to turn her wheels right, it lined her up with him at the beginning, before the arc continued.

Now that may have surprised him and caused the reaction. That also may show that she was trying to turn away from the guys on her left side while not realizing the agent was in front of her on the right side of the hood.

Not all videos show this clearly, but the one I saw did. I still think this was not an intentional act of running over an ICE agent nor a want of an ICE agent to murder someone.

This was clearly a terrible accident.

I totally agree.It was an accident on the drivers part am sure, but the ICE officer, in that split second wouldn’t have been thinking that.We can all agree it was a tragic mistake all round.

I watched that very detailed video on CNN. That’s exactly what happened 😥

Whitewavemark2 Fri 16-Jan-26 08:40:44

Trump seems to think he can stop the mid-terms - that, of course, doesn’t mean he legally can.

This Daily Voice

Donald Trump suggested canceling the midterm elections and threatened to invoke the Insurrection Act in Minneapolis as nationwide outrage grows over his mass deportation efforts.

Trump floated the idea of not having midterms in an interview with Reuters on Thursday, Jan. 15. The comment echoes what he told House GOP members earlier in January, warning that he believes he would be impeached if Republicans don't retain control of Congress.

Midterm elections typically end poorly for the party in power, with Democrats retaking the House majority by winning 235 seats during Trump's first term in 2018.

"It's some deep psychological thing, but when you win the presidency, you don't win the midterms,” Trump told Reuters.

Trump then argued that midterms were unnecessary because he has "accomplished so much."

Oreo Fri 16-Jan-26 08:37:43

Starfire57

You know, I was watching another video of the shooting and realized, beforehand he was standing to the right side of her vehicle, not directly in front of her......so when she started to turn her wheels right, it lined her up with him at the beginning, before the arc continued.

Now that may have surprised him and caused the reaction. That also may show that she was trying to turn away from the guys on her left side while not realizing the agent was in front of her on the right side of the hood.

Not all videos show this clearly, but the one I saw did. I still think this was not an intentional act of running over an ICE agent nor a want of an ICE agent to murder someone.

This was clearly a terrible accident.

I totally agree.It was an accident on the drivers part am sure, but the ICE officer, in that split second wouldn’t have been thinking that.We can all agree it was a tragic mistake all round.

Whitewavemark2 Fri 16-Jan-26 08:36:21

Maremia

Could he actually stop the midterms?
Claim the country is at war?

Well, that seems to be an opinion I’ve seen. I don’t know the legality of it though. Must have a look.

Starfire57 Fri 16-Jan-26 02:28:33

MayBee70

“As far as this latest event, I can't speak for intentions, but it did look like the ICE officer panicked when she was driving straight for him and just opened fire. It almost looks like after he fired the first shots , she swerved the car to the right and then continued until the crash into other cars.

Why she just didn't get out of the car, who knows. Contrary to popular media, legal citizens are not being arrested.

Sometimes someone may be taken in for questioning and released. I hear about this all the time on local news and message boards; people complain while others say it's necessary to get to the criminals.

There have been many protests, some peaceful, but I've also seen those who will try to get physical, and obstruct both officers, ICE and regular citizens on streets.

They risk themselves and others”
So, after numerous posts trying to convince us otherwise you’ve finally admitted that the poor woman wasn’t at fault. But it’s still an ‘accident, not what is imo murder.

I do not recall saying it's her fault. Only that, people should cooperate with law enforcement to avoid this sort of thing.

If that's blame, so be it but it's the truth, she could have avoided this by simply cooperating.

Most of my posts were convincing people that we need this illegal immigration problem dealt with, as it is being done. And that it is within the law, the powers of the federal government.

Well, while I'm here, want to share a former federal prosectors take on the lawsuits that the states will be trying to do against Trump and the fed for the raids.

www.yahoo.com/news/articles/illinois-minnesota-lawsuits-against-trump-090059079.html

MayBee70 Fri 16-Jan-26 01:43:49

“As far as this latest event, I can't speak for intentions, but it did look like the ICE officer panicked when she was driving straight for him and just opened fire. It almost looks like after he fired the first shots , she swerved the car to the right and then continued until the crash into other cars.

Why she just didn't get out of the car, who knows. Contrary to popular media, legal citizens are not being arrested.

Sometimes someone may be taken in for questioning and released. I hear about this all the time on local news and message boards; people complain while others say it's necessary to get to the criminals.

There have been many protests, some peaceful, but I've also seen those who will try to get physical, and obstruct both officers, ICE and regular citizens on streets.

They risk themselves and others”
So, after numerous posts trying to convince us otherwise you’ve finally admitted that the poor woman wasn’t at fault. But it’s still an ‘accident, not what is imo murder.

Starfire57 Thu 15-Jan-26 23:48:47

Maremia

Could he actually stop the midterms?
Claim the country is at war?

There are no existing laws that allow that executive power.

Even if there were, it wouldn't be wise....because the gathered predictions I read online show the Republicans still in favor of maintaining their lead in the House and Senate, although its a long while until November.

That's another thing that bugs me about Trump, is his constant musing about things he knows he can't do, like he's thinking about something he'd like to do, just to get a rise out of democrats....I guess it's his form of revenge or bullying. Or look at me now, I kicked your butts after you tried to destroy me, so watch out kinda thing? Idk.

Starfire57 Thu 15-Jan-26 23:37:02

You know, I was watching another video of the shooting and realized, beforehand he was standing to the right side of her vehicle, not directly in front of her......so when she started to turn her wheels right, it lined her up with him at the beginning, before the arc continued.

Now that may have surprised him and caused the reaction. That also may show that she was trying to turn away from the guys on her left side while not realizing the agent was in front of her on the right side of the hood.

Not all videos show this clearly, but the one I saw did. I still think this was not an intentional act of running over an ICE agent nor a want of an ICE agent to murder someone.

This was clearly a terrible accident.

Starfire57 Thu 15-Jan-26 23:21:38

DaisyAnneReturns

Maremia

As scientists say, 'Correlation does not indicate causation.'

My father taught me this when I was very young Maremia. He was in the RAF and the growth of what was called "Operational Research" during the war meant the RAF was one of the central institutions driving the expantion in the number of statisticians.

He taught those new to the post-war professionalisation of the field. That meant he taught them that "correlation isn't causation". He told me he did it by showing the that the rise in suicides was equal to the rise in the cost of radio licenses over the same period. (Yes, it was that long ago). It's not something you forget!

Yes, I realize correlation does not indicate causation.

But, doesn't many a scientific theory depend on correlation?
I think those stats are something to think about, among other evidence out there.

Scientific theory is regarded sometimes as fact though, even when it shouldn't be. One example, the Chemical Imbalance theory has people taking drugs when there isn't one valid, physical test for levels of physical brain chemicals. Unlike diabetes, high blood pressure, etc, which all have physical tests. Yet the majority people treat this theory as causational fact.

Stats are a different thing, mainly a pattern and the pattern to me in those charts say something.

DaisyAnneReturns Thu 15-Jan-26 21:58:18

Maremia

As scientists say, 'Correlation does not indicate causation.'

My father taught me this when I was very young Maremia. He was in the RAF and the growth of what was called "Operational Research" during the war meant the RAF was one of the central institutions driving the expantion in the number of statisticians.

He taught those new to the post-war professionalisation of the field. That meant he taught them that "correlation isn't causation". He told me he did it by showing the that the rise in suicides was equal to the rise in the cost of radio licenses over the same period. (Yes, it was that long ago). It's not something you forget!

DaisyAnneReturns Thu 15-Jan-26 21:37:16

The first part of this episode of "Private Eye" updates is a view of this case. (It's the first third of the video. )

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V59br2CBgJ0

Maremia Thu 15-Jan-26 21:36:29

As scientists say, 'Correlation does not indicate causation.'