Is there a solution to this growing problem?

Reading the thread I had a great many thoughts about changes of our expectations of owning material goods.
Also the fantasy lives in even benign commuter games.

Not quite sure I can pinpoint the period in history, although the Maggie Thatcher period had a lot to do with changing overall structures and raising economic expectations if I think hard about it.

Towards the Individual Ownership of many goods, as opposed to family or community ownership? We all want to be homeowners.

I'm thinking of an Ex who was that generation in the 80's that in London suddenly became crazy champagne drinkers as assets got sold off, the the money many one to individuals, not society as a whole? (he crashed, and wasn't the only one)

spend.... spend.... spend ... value material goods more than before, where values were rooted in family and community? And this aspirationalism spread ..the latest this, the desirability of that?

Was my son the last generation to not be too bothered by having The Right Trainers..

It created a climate of envy and entitlement, and if you couldnt get it fair and saved up for, why...credit, debt...

and going out to steal goods more and more ..because you feel"entitled"..........

Sorry, someone else has already asked the question.

I'm afraid that the 'austerity' years have done terrible damage to public services. I saw it in the school I worked in as extra support and LA support services were cut and withdrawn. And that was only during the first 3 years of that government. I retired then and I believe it got worse..

@Ilovedragonflies

Is the place you work privately owned or is it run by the local council?

It sounds like a really hard job.

I think there are more dysfunctional families where many more children coming from broken homes where they have seen their parents with multiple father figures. The children often have different fathers too. This can leave emotional scars leading to another generation of dysfunctional adults.

Wyllow3 18.40- yes that was the reason- no other safe option available over the weekend.

Maybe part of the reason for the charges may have been brought to "keep him in" in safety.

Ilovedragonflies, I hope I havent missed anything and, appreciate yiu may be unable to answer. Are you a local authority or private resource?

My experience of L.a. resources pre austerity, was of developing multi agency work. That included the area police. It wasn’t perfect by a long chalk but there was a sense of attempting to work together
Having said that, the lifestyle choices dismissal of vulnerable children in care was the fall back position of police and sometimes sw.

We under investigation in services p, austerity devastated some good resources.
Caring for angry, damaged, difficult yiung people is high risk, high demand, total nonsense for yiu not to have active night staff, well, trained, supported and paid
Thanks for all you do

Wyllow3 17.35- So true.

The impact of austerity over so many years lead to an increase in need for support services, at the same time as they were being reduced and constrained.

Recent case I was involved in: adult recently evicted from rental accommodation, lost job, now no fixed abode. Caught shoplifting a food item value less than £10, shop calls police. Police arrive and concerned about presentation and MH and take into custody- spent Friday night in police cell. Police took said adult to hospital Saturday am as adult behaving somewhat confused and strangely- hospital examines and discharges back to police custody as not so severely ill to justify being sectioned or hospitalised (beds and MH services constrained). Then at stage of police interview said adult deemed not fit to continue as not able to demonstrate understanding of legal advice and instructions. Sub zero temperatures outside by late afternoon- and said adult no fixed abode. Police have duty of care.

Local council homeless services closed over weekend- on call services said couldn't help. not safe to discharge said adult to no fixed abode in such cold weather conditions, knowing has no money.

Outcome- adult charged and remanded to prison to appear in court on the Monday morning.

The shop owner was clearly not happy about shop lifting incident and any apparent rudeness when said adult confronted and restrained until police arrived ( very few shop staff are trained in MH issues) - but the tale of events before and after are very sad. The solutions not always easy.

Toetoe

It's interesting reading this thread , also worrying. Another problem is kids having kids . These youngsters from dysfunctional backgrounds having babies. Education and awareness / life skills needed whilst at home, in school /college is imperative

Maybe that’s the case where you live but not the case nationally.
In 2023 the average age for women at childbirth was 30.
This has been rising since the 1970s.

With MH, services have been totally slashed. It started around 2004/5 as beds were closed down, at that point, being able to "care" for patients became "contain".

Its a reason for problems but not excusing them unless there is literally no reasonable help, at which point we need to focus on resourcing.

For someone with very difficult, sometimes physically aggressive behaviour, they often end up in a police cell overnight as there are totally inadequate " contain and treat' wards.
I so admire the police who go out at night and pick up the saddest cases with care.

Mollygo ♥️

icanhandthemback

My son and daughter both have neurodivergent children which has its challenges but the are strongly of the belief that their role is to assist their children to grow up to cope in the real world as much as they can with 'reasonable' adjustments being made where they have problems.

My children, with children with ASC agree heartily with that.

We receive an awful lot of training to do the job @keepingquiet and have to retake the learning annually, so that's not the problem. I do believe it's exacerbated by the police as they are so used to receiving missing child reports from us, and therefore know the names, that they are given a very low priority. We get a CAD number and sometimes that's it. Until recently, they appeared to see it as being a 'lifestyle choice' on the part of the child, often girls who use sex with anyone as currency for drugs/alcohol and are passed around via word of mouth, somewhat similar to the outlook of the police in the Rochdale grooming gangs although that appears to be getting a bit better nowadays.

We have kids who will call them to tell them where they are, for a lift home. The police then call us, tell us where they are and expect us to fetch them. We can't legally do that as we're supported living rather than a full care provision, we lone work and can't leave the others, and we are not insured to transport them anyway. Kids openly steal from local shops and nothing is done about it. I report it to management and their social workers. Nada. The house regularly stinks of cannabis where they smoke in their rooms, which is banned - you can't mistake the smell - nothing is done about it apart from room searches - but the kids are told in advance when these will be and can refuse to let it happen. The police ignore it if they do turn up to do room searches of any other missing child. It's infuriating, sad and frightening all at the same time.

Honestly, I don't have the answers but nobody cares enough, from management upwards, to even try. The kids are placed with us, those of us working directly with them do our best, but with no support, what can we do?

My son and daughter both have neurodivergent children which has its challenges but the are strongly of the belief that their role is to assist their children to grow up to cope in the real world as much as they can with 'reasonable' adjustments being made where they have problems.
My son gets quite upset at the number of parents with autistic children who just seem to think that any behaviour goes because of their condition. As he says, there is a difference between naughty behaviour and autistic behaviour. He works very hard to support the school where there are problems and he gets the support in return from the school. He finds that other parents are often at loggerheads with the school, solely backing the child and then wondering why their children aren't managing or respecting the teachers or rules.
At the same time, I think there is also a problem where schools are reluctant to get children the help they need because there isn't the proper funding available but with an EHCP they are legally obliged to fund it, whilst Social Services will often not want to label a child because they have the attitude that the parent is blaming the child for behaviour they believe the parents are responsible for.
We desperately need urgent early assessment of children and parents when problems arise and proper support.
We also need to be in a position where we can go back to trusting in the NHS, the police and Government.

A zero tolerance notice only works one way: it's designed to protect the service provider. It doesn't prevent the service provider treating the customer, client or patient like sh*t.

It's interesting reading this thread , also worrying. Another problem is kids having kids . These youngsters from dysfunctional backgrounds having babies. Education and awareness / life skills needed whilst at home, in school /college is imperative

This is very sad to read. OP asked for solutions- what do you think will help Dragonflies?
Maybe more funding and staff training?
Maybe more help for children and young families.
If society doesn't invest in young people then they won't have an incentive to invest in us?

I work in a supported living home for ages 16-18, ostensibly to get them ready for life outside of care. We take pains to find out what they want to study, enrol them in colleges, etc. In all my years working there, not one has bothered to attend for longer than a few weeks. We try hard to build relationships with them. We listen to them if they want to talk. We're trained to help.
They lay in their bedrooms until late afternoon, come down to cook late at night, then go out, get drunk or high, and miss their curfew (11pm, so not early.) I've been physically assaulted - I'm 5'2 and some of these kids have a foot on me - by a kid having a temper tantrum because she was having a row with someone who didn't live with us and I happened to be handy. I'm still dealing with the aftermath and will be for life.
Each of these kids supposedly has a mental health issue - in reality, the vast majority have an entitlement issue. In a lot of cases, they have had to leave the family home because their parent/s cannot cope with the abuse they've received and have reached the end of their tether. (Not all - some kids have been removed because of parenting issues - drug abuse/alcoholism/prison etc and I'm not talking about these kids here.) However, in all cases, these kids 'know their rights' and that there is nothing we can do to stop them doing what they want.
We work a 24.5 hour shift and are supposed to sleep from 12-7am, hours which are unpaid - and that's when the main work happens: dealing with the police (if/when they come out - often hours after the report goes in) when they are missing from care, drunk/stoned teenagers who turn up at 3am, trying to talk them down. We also lone work and it's getting more and more dangerous. I live on adrenaline for 24 hours after a shift ends.
The thing is, there are no deterrents for these kids. They know it. They do whatever they want. And year by year, the behaviour gets worse because nothing is done to stop it simply because their 'rights' supercede those trying to help them.

*I've dithered about posting this because it sounds like I hate my job - I don't - we have some successes which makes it worthwhile - but recently? Kids have become almost feral; and it's worsening.

I think we have to take a step back to look at where the damage started. TV and Social Media might have a lot to answer for but so does the influence in the home when raising young children. Mine were all taught about respect, doing unto others what you would want to be done to you, etc. They would no more treat a shop assistant badly than fly to the moon.
There is an explosion with disregulated emotionally challenged children too. Has this always been the case or is it a newer thing? I worry that these children are being taught that the world revolves around them rather than them finding a way to live in the world.

"I blame the parents." At what age does your bad behaviour cease to be a result of being badly brought up? The increase in violence is not confined to the younger generation.

DaisyAnneReturns I think the "attack" is mostly aimed at the lack of support and care that the mentally ill receive, not them directly.

Mental illness can lead to very inappropriate behaviour. It isn't an all or nothing issue. Why attack the mentally ill?

Toetoe you make a good point.
The idea was that soaps would reflect real life situations.
Now real life seems to take the worst aspects of life in soaps and make them something to aspire to or to copy.
We never saw Coronation Street.
We did watch Eastenders until the relentless dreariness and violence took over in the late 1990s
We’ve not tried the school soaps.
Even the Worst Witch exemplified the nastiness in life.
Increasingly Excusing poor behaviour on the grounds of MH or even giving MH as a reason for poor behaviour makes it difficult to see how things can improve.

It may also be due to the general lack of respect for public services, especially in education but also the NHS.
These very necessary services are not highly regarded in the society we have created- we value celebrity, social media influencers, TV personalities etc much more highly than we do teachers and nurses.
Young people aspire far more to be on TV and social media than they do entering the 'caring' professions.
I remember my early nursing days when I would get free bus rides to work and knew that people respected me for what I did.
That just doesn't exist now despite all the pan rattling during Covid.
As for teachers- they are considered lazy and complainers by those who don't understand the complexities and value of the work they do.
It is a terrible indictment on the sort of society we have created.

Toetoe

I also think some television programmes can influence people. In some dramas and soaps there is often a lot
of aggressive violence , verbal and physical and seen over and over it has an affect . I was with a family member who regularly watches a soap called Eastenders and in one part a family together in a hospital room , teenager in the bed after being attacked , mother verbally abusive to the "surgeon " when he said they needed to operate asap . Yes all acted but showing it normal to be rude and disrespectful towards emergency workers . This is seen to be normal and acceptable. I think it's an awful tv show and those brought up with this stuff on nightly will act as if. There is far to much of this shown on TV. Just my opinion.

When our children were at home there was only one TV programme banned, East Enders, drama and bad behavior was not what our daughters needed to be taught as normal
TV has got much worse since then.

As a retired nurse working for the NHS, I have received and witnessed my fair share of verbal abuse and threat of physical violence, due on many occasions to alcohol and drug abuse, which in itself causes not only physical problems but mental health issues too.

I don’t believe that verbal abuse and violence is solely due to increasing mental health issues and the lack of MH services.
I believe bad behaviour; swearing, verbal abuse and violence has become normalised for many lacking in a moral compass. This can be seen now in much younger children, which poses the question about appropriate and effective parenting. Children’s behaviour is learned within the home initially. It begs the question what example is the responsible adult teaching their children.
The ever increasing expectation by successive government ministers of adding responsibilities to the teachers already long list has meant that teachers are taking on more and more of parenting tasks than is appropriate; dental hygiene, toilet training, mental health and behaviour problems. Furthermore safeguarding issues, looking out for possible suggestion of genital mutilation, observing and reporting signs of neglect, and monitoring as per the “Prevent” programme, and now misogyny. All these roles on top of attempting to deal with a barrage of verbal and threats of and actual violence along with appalling behaviour. We as a society cannot continue to expect our teachers to shoulder all this responsibility. The writing is on the wall for all to see, nurses and teachers are leaving their professions, at a time when we are having to recruit from abroad.
Equally bad language; swearing using the F word in everyday sentences during general chit-chat, can be heard everywhere. It doesn’t seem to matter if children are present. You switch the tv on and it’s regularly used in dramas.
Unfortunately children, youth and adults will continue this behaviour as there is no effective deterrent and we look for excuses to explain the abhorrent behaviour. It does come down to appropriate adults accepting their responsibility for children and adults responsible for their own behaviour.
Apologies for the long winded read.