Trump says our troops were not on the frontline in Afghanistan

specki4eyes

DaisyAnneReturns you're "not sure" whether the King should visit America. What exactly would enable you to have a sure opinion?
The King's visit to America will be proudly hosted by that monstrous draft dodger, he will make a massive media circus of it. The King will not meet with your average American, only with Trump's vile henchmen and grasping family members.
This planned visit, if it happens, will completely undo all the wonderful effort and work that King Charles has done since becoming our monarch. He owes our fallen troops respect who fought in the name of our Queen and Country. Time to draw the line under Trump's lies and insults.
It will simply be appeasement, not democracy. And we all know what appeasement achieves...conflict. Trumps legacy will continue long after he is gone.

I understand the strength of feeling, but I think this frames the issue too narrowly and too emotionally.

I come from a strongly forces family - both my father and my brother have seen active service, so I was, unsurprisingly, horrified by Trump’s comments about service personnel. I don’t minimise that for a moment, and I don’t think anyone should.

That said, a state visit by the King wouldn’t be an endorsement of Trump or his politics. Monarchs engage with governments they don’t like all the time; that’s diplomacy, not appeasement. Appeasement is conceding principles to avoid conflict; simply showing up and maintaining dialogue isn’t that. If you've ever known members of our special forces you would know that anger is not seen as solutions to difficult and complex issues.

America remains an ally, even if relations are strained and values don’t always align. Keeping channels open, especially at the highest symbolic level, can matter precisely when governments are difficult. The Royal head of state plays a great part in this. Calm engagement may well be a better way of asserting values than public refusal and there is time to come to a decision about whether thd trip goes ahead.

It is the best thing Starmer has done actually rebutting Trump’s claim. Good for him and hope he continues with this strong language re Trump’s rude disparaging remarks.

It's good to see pushback against this vile untruth. I have no views on the Duke of Sussex ( no interest in royal matters whatsoever), but good for him for speaking out, from his home in California.

I greatly admire a soldier who lost both his legs aiding the US. He said 'whatever this guy sitting in the Whitehouse says, I know I was there and that I was on the front line.'

Trump is a draft dodging coward who wouldn’t have lasted a second on the frontline in the Helmand province of Afghanistan.
He should retract his foul lies and apologise wholeheartedly to the armed services in the UK who served alongside the US in Afghanistan and to the loved ones of those UK soldiers who made the ultimate sacrifice.
But I suppose a coward would never do this.

Just heard him on the BBC news referred to as The Coward of Capitol Hill. Hope it sticks. In his craw.

Bullies are often cowards too.

I’m thinking that Trump has deliberately set out from the very beginning of his presidency to break the financial bonds which tied the USA to Europe.
I can almost sympathise with that position, if it’s true. So more ridiculous statements from Trump about the poor involvement of British troops in Afghanistan seem to further emphasise that the USA wants out of the current deal/set up. So in a way, it makes sense possibly? Truth, of course, being bypassed entirely.

A formal apology is necessary, from the habitual liar.

We are seeing it from the POV of those attacked, of course.

but Trump is also saying it for the home market

There are plenty of voters who won't know enough history and current affairs to know who the US's allies were and the significant part they played.

Trump is on a glorifying mission to big up himself - and also to take US minds off the parlous situation as regards health, welfare, justice, at home

Its a classic way to act as a dictator to unite your own people by setting up enemies or others weaker/lesser/unreliable than "us

Perhaps he's not quite as stupid as he appears; coming out with one outrageous statement after another means people are incensed about his current pronouncement and the last one is put on the back burner.

Whatever next?

I do think though, that some of the American military will be angry. Many of the people who served shoulder to shoulder with troops from the UK and elsewhere will be pretty senior now. They will be in a position of influence.

ronib

I’m thinking that Trump has deliberately set out from the very beginning of his presidency to break the financial bonds which tied the USA to Europe.
I can almost sympathise with that position, if it’s true. So more ridiculous statements from Trump about the poor involvement of British troops in Afghanistan seem to further emphasise that the USA wants out of the current deal/set up. So in a way, it makes sense possibly? Truth, of course, being bypassed entirely.

I think most of what he spouting at the moment is performative bullying. Plus distraction from Epstein.

Ronib when Trump says European countries need to step up and take more responsibility for their protection, I don't think anyone disagrees. However, it is the way that Trump is behaving towards long time allies that people, quite rightly, object to. European countries are increasing their military spending and the US benefits greatly from this. He doesn't need to lie, insult or publicly humiliate countries or their leaders but that is what he enjoys doing because he's a pathetic bully with severe mental health issues. He also needs to acknowledge the number of jobs Nato defence spending supports in the US and the extent to which it makes US armaments cheaper for their own military.

"Total defense investment for European Allies and Canada exceeded USD 482 billion in 2024. The U.S. remains the dominant supplier, providing 52% of equipment for European NATO members. " AI generated

Yes, Allira, the 'dead cat on the table' ploy.
But, as long as competent folk are keeping tabs, securing 'evidence', about each and every transgression, then much of his nonsense could be revoked/ reversed, in due course, with due process.

And Epstein is still 'on the table'.

mae13

Trump should talk!

As I asked, in another post, was this creature disappointed and heartbroken when his rich Daddy's money greased enough palms to get him exempted from the Vietnam War draft?

Trump managed to get five exemptions from the draft and ensured his exemptions would last past his 25th birthday, when he would be too old to be called up. He even made a tasteless joke about not being drafted, saying catching STIs in expensive nightclubs was a bigger risk to him than being sent to Vietnam.
I'm sure had Trump been drafted, and not been too keen on being killed, he could have decided to sign on for 3 years in a non combat role as many men did during the Vietnam Wat.

Maremia

Yes, Allira, the 'dead cat on the table' ploy.
But, as long as competent folk are keeping tabs, securing 'evidence', about each and every transgression, then much of his nonsense could be revoked/ reversed, in due course, with due process.

I expect that is happening.

Whatever diversionary tactics he uses, it still affects those damaged by his previous outbursts.

Mamie

I do think though, that some of the American military will be angry. Many of the people who served shoulder to shoulder with troops from the UK and elsewhere will be pretty senior now. They will be in a position of influence.

FB is awash with long and articulate posts from angry service and ex-service personnel, not just those in the UK, other NATO members too.

He seems to lob one grenade after another indiscriminately (or deliberately, who knows?).

Trump was terrible towards the former Presidential candidate John Mc Cain, who was shot down over Vietnam and was a prisoner for 5 years. Typically Trump made the tactless comment that he would have thought more of Mc Cain if he had escaped. Not exactly easy for a white man in an American uniform to escape from Hanoi, I would think.

ronib

I’m thinking that Trump has deliberately set out from the very beginning of his presidency to break the financial bonds which tied the USA to Europe.
I can almost sympathise with that position, if it’s true. So more ridiculous statements from Trump about the poor involvement of British troops in Afghanistan seem to further emphasise that the USA wants out of the current deal/set up. So in a way, it makes sense possibly? Truth, of course, being bypassed entirely.

You're right. Altternative facts used to balance with real facts but Trump now has a very efficient propoganda model. He has written his version of what happened at Davos and Fox News is repeating it. So they are being told that America owned Greenland, that the Chinese make but don't use windmills. They are being told that their 401K retirement funds have risen between 80-90% in some cases by 100%. The truth, which the most watched "news" stations will not tell them is that the average increase has been 9.6%. There are no facts.

Those around him did not try to conceal there hostility towards Mark Carney and towards European Government's in Davos this week. And still the far-right outlets tell America that the Donal Trump is the greatest President ever, while "blue states" are being crushed by the ICE Gestapo.

But remember this doesn't just happen in America. People listen to, praise and vote for politicians here and in Europe, who would happily behave in the same way.

ronib

I’m thinking that Trump has deliberately set out from the very beginning of his presidency to break the financial bonds which tied the USA to Europe.
I can almost sympathise with that position, if it’s true. So more ridiculous statements from Trump about the poor involvement of British troops in Afghanistan seem to further emphasise that the USA wants out of the current deal/set up. So in a way, it makes sense possibly? Truth, of course, being bypassed entirely.

Could be, and was threatening Canada and Greenland part of his plan or is he turning on his NATO allies because they stood up to him regarding some of his preposterous intentions?

Who knows how his mind works? Or is it all part of some plan by others who are pulling his strings?

POTUS makes absurd comments on social media.

“Maybe we should have put NATO to the test: Invoked Article 5, and forced NATO to come here and protect our Southern Border from further Invasions of Illegal Immigrants, thus freeing up large numbers of Border Patrol Agents for other tasks.” - President Donald J. Trump

Allira

Perhaps he's not quite as stupid as he appears; coming out with one outrageous statement after another means people are incensed about his current pronouncement and the last one is put on the back burner.

Whatever next?

exactly.

Except I don't think he can sort of stop himself, ie it isnt planned

which does make him the more dangerous in one way: in another, eventually I do believe that there will be those within his own party who will want rid.

Not that I particularly want to see Vance....

I had a very interesting discussion with a political analyst yesterday who believes that:

far from building a new Empire, Trump is like one of the late Roman Caesars, who were ever more crazy in the face of a Failing Empire.

Its heyday has passed in the face of the likes of China and its satellites and its growth into Africa and so on by economic not military means (but they have a very effective army).

In the face of this Europe has more reason than ever to stand together or we'll get pulled under in the vortex. Canada remains a very, very important ally but will struggle if the US starts to disintintegrate.

I am so angry at Trump's comments. One of our AC did a tour of Afghanistan followed by a tour in Iraq. He came home in one piece but the mental trauma still lingers.
Each time I try to express how I feel about Trump i just cannot find the words.