Nottingham stabbing inquiry

It could be that using the ‘ too many young black men in detention’ was used as an excuse for lack of resources or it could equally be that was the wrong headed decision used about Calocane.
Certainly the stop and search of young black people was highlighted as racist when it was profiling as very many young black males did and do carry knives according to the Police.They stop and search young white males too.
Wyllow3 you do seem to be actively searching for racism on this thread where none exists.

Wyllow3

*It is racist* to start bringing in grooming gangs (Asian) as if they were relevant to this discussion when as I have clearly pointed out fact based evidence above it's not relevant.

It shows a whole set of assumptions based on the premise that it's people who are non white generically without looking up actual facts.

As I mentioned grooming gangs you are clearly having a go at me. Never mind that a forum is for ALL opinions.
It was stated yesterday by the bereaved families KC that he had not been sectioned because of his colour. Hard facts spoken by a KC. Had he been sectioned, these 3 innocent people, 2 of them on the threshold of their adult lives would still be here today.
I mentioned grooming gangs because the same mindset of the authorities being called racist prolonged the abuse of the young girls they preyed on.

Is it 'race' or is it' resources'?
Resources have been squeezed and cut.
I'm going with resources.

It is racist to start bringing in grooming gangs (Asian) as if they were relevant to this discussion when as I have clearly pointed out fact based evidence above it's not relevant.

It shows a whole set of assumptions based on the premise that it's people who are non white generically without looking up actual facts.

Tuliptree

Indeed Wyllow - best leave them to it imo. Difficult to have a rational and especially a well informed discussion on any thread which includes race ( see BAFTA thread)

You seem very damning of peoples' views on this site. It's a discussion to which everyone can bring their comments.

I agree in general with Sarnia and eazybee on the points they wish to highlight.
It has nothing to do with racism, and one of the victims is of Indian origin anyway. But you don't need to have have heard about Grace, Barnaby or Ian. (You don't need to have heard the name of their killer or know his colour either).
It's about the bereaved loved ones who are fighting so bravely and desperately to prevent such avoidable tragedies ever happening again.

People should look up their facts before posting!

People are conflating two ethnic groups above by mentioning the grooming gangs. More racist assumptions.

The number of young men of Asian origin presenting with Schizophrenia is only very very slightly higher than white young men. Go look it up - I knew, but have just checked.

It is people of black Caribbean or African origin that present in far greater numbers. We don't know why, but a good guess is the history of institutionalised racism going back for years and years.

Less now, but still very alive and kicking, if you care to actually take the trouble to speak to a person of these origins as to what is was like as a child growing up black from these areas of origin. It does need some investigating by taking a good look at individuals experiences of those who are ill in a historical way.

I can understand the caution caused by assumptions made about people from those origins
and an awareness of some racism at work in the MH community (which fortunately now has increasing numbers of people from different ethnic origins working in Mental Health, but still not enough, as with the police)

including how they were treated in the past, when nearly all MH workers were white with their own assumptions.

But I totally disagree that if the person in question showed real signs of being a real and immediate danger to the community would have been released into what community care there is, it would have happened

'Rachel Langdale, KC, said one doctor had been leaning towards" sectioning Valdocane because it was "his first presentation of psychosis."
"But the team of professionals considered the research evidence that shows the over-representation of young black males in detention," Ms Langdale said, adding that it was decided that he could be admitted later if his treatment failed.'
I doubt that a KC would be presenting evidence in a way that that could be called racist.

A previous independent report into Calocane's care found that failings included him not being forced to have long -lasting anti-psychotic medication because he did not like needles, and NHS staff having "felt a pressure to avoid restrictive practice because of his ethnicity."DT.24.2.2026

Wyllow3

Racism rears its ugly head again. Knowing Mental Health professionals as I do, and having worked when there were more resources back in 2006 on an inpatient ward and having an ex psychiatrist as a close (Quaker) friend: having met people with many different conditions.

I can assure you that the problem is lack of resources not "because he was black". The problem is not just lack of beds (which is most definitely is a problem) but the inability to provide adequate supervision in the community.

Many people stop taking their meds because of the side effects of some antipsychotics, (one of which is not being able to have sex, which doesn't go down well with young people mainly men) and also illegal drug use, which can make the problem worse. Those drugs do provide adequate help - if people take them, and they must have considered he was likely to take them.

How on earth do you expect 24/7 supervision of people when they are barely coping each day (and particularly night) when for example the police are picking up suicide attempts all night -who need beds to stop them killing themselves? Are you aware how sparse not only beds are but MH staff all night?

They made best judgments and it turned out to be the wrong one in this case. But I can assure you that colour would not have made a difference if the person was considered a substantial risk to the public.

nanna, comparing this with the Australian attacks is completely irrelevant. They were terrorists, no mention has been made of a mental health background. Do not conflate the two. It is true that some terrorists could be identified as having MH problems, but it's not a "given".

Leave your rants at the door and instead try pushing for a more adequate MH system ...*Do something!*

How many of us know, either from our own experience, or those close to us, how hard it is to get to see a MH professional and treatment beyond GP drugs and sometimes a short number of sessions of counselling (not enough, generally) for very severe depression, anxiety, or the far more complicated personality disorders or similar

Mental Health provision is divided into age groups: up to 16, its children MH: between 16 and 65 its Adult MH: for over 65's its Older Adults.

Older adults is divided as completely separate provision for dementia and Mental Health itself. For our big city there are just 16 beds for Older Adults and this includes people with long term/lifelong MH problems as well as older people coping with unmanageable grief.

Adult MH is generally a huge fishpond of different needs whether it be extreme behaviours and treatment or post natal depression or people who fall into the 1 in 3/4 people who experience MH during their lives, a number of whom cannot be adequately treated by non expert GP's.

With respect, it was widely documented that in the cases of the grooming gangs and stop and search, skin colour was very much an issue and resulted in a stepping back from the authorities with devastating effects on the victims and their families.

Indeed Wyllow - best leave them to it imo. Difficult to have a rational and especially a well informed discussion on any thread which includes race ( see BAFTA thread)

Racism rears its ugly head again. Knowing Mental Health professionals as I do, and having worked when there were more resources back in 2006 on an inpatient ward and having an ex psychiatrist as a close (Quaker) friend: having met people with many different conditions.

I can assure you that the problem is lack of resources not "because he was black". The problem is not just lack of beds (which is most definitely is a problem) but the inability to provide adequate supervision in the community.

Many people stop taking their meds because of the side effects of some antipsychotics, (one of which is not being able to have sex, which doesn't go down well with young people mainly men) and also illegal drug use, which can make the problem worse. Those drugs do provide adequate help - if people take them, and they must have considered he was likely to take them.

How on earth do you expect 24/7 supervision of people when they are barely coping each day (and particularly night) when for example the police are picking up suicide attempts all night -who need beds to stop them killing themselves? Are you aware how sparse not only beds are but MH staff all night?

They made best judgments and it turned out to be the wrong one in this case. But I can assure you that colour would not have made a difference if the person was considered a substantial risk to the public.

nanna, comparing this with the Australian attacks is completely irrelevant. They were terrorists, no mention has been made of a mental health background. Do not conflate the two. It is true that some terrorists could be identified as having MH problems, but it's not a "given".

Leave your rants at the door and instead try pushing for a more adequate MH system ...*Do something!*

How many of us know, either from our own experience, or those close to us, how hard it is to get to see a MH professional and treatment beyond GP drugs and sometimes a short number of sessions of counselling (not enough, generally) for very severe depression, anxiety, or the far more complicated personality disorders or similar

Mental Health provision is divided into age groups: up to 16, its children MH: between 16 and 65 its Adult MH: for over 65's its Older Adults.

Older adults is divided as completely separate provision for dementia and Mental Health itself. For our big city there are just 16 beds for Older Adults and this includes people with long term/lifelong MH problems as well as older people coping with unmanageable grief.

Adult MH is generally a huge fishpond of different needs whether it be extreme behaviours and treatment or post natal depression or people who fall into the 1 in 3/4 people who experience MH during their lives, a number of whom cannot be adequately treated by non expert GP's.

Well said Sarnia in your last two comments.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

For further clarification you could read the opening remarks of the judge and Counsel for the inquiry.

It’s not relevant in this context. Here’s the scope and aims of the enquiry. You may think we need another enquiry into causes of schizophrenia and which might be preventable but this enquiry isn’t about that.

Scope and aims of the Inquiry

The purpose of the Inquiry is to build a clear understanding of the events, acts and omissions that led up to VC carrying out these brutal attacks. The Inquiry will provide a Report and recommendations so that lessons can be learned to prevent similar attacks.

eazybee

Because it IS relevant, that is why.

I agree with you. There was a very interesting article in the Daily Mail (yes, I know!) written by a GP worrying about the rise in cannabis use and the detrimental effects it is having on long term users. A few weeks ago the case involving a man brandishing a machete found he had smoked cannabis for years. He killed a young lad on his way to school and seriously injured 3 police officers who were trying to arrest him.
You are right, it is relevant.

Because it IS relevant, that is why.

However, a team of mental health professionals considered research evidence that examined the over-representation of young black men in detention This says it all to me. They clearly felt they should hold back from adding another young black man to those figures. Hence his colour was a deciding factor.
Years ago the Met Police, in response to rising knife crime, carried out stop and search on young men in London. The black community complained bitterly that it was mostly black lads being searched and called the Met, racist. Black and Black British young men carry out the highest number of knife crimes so of course they will be stopped and searched. In response to the racist card the Met scaled back and knife crime continues to rise. How many young boys would still be alive today if skin colour hadn't been made an issue?
The grooming gangs were allowed to continue their disgusting abuse on young girls because the Government, Police and support agencies were termed racist. Nobody stood up for the young white girls and their plight. They didn't matter as long as the powers that be avoided being called racist.
Our Government (all parties) the Police and everyone else involved in cases like this have to look beyond skin colour and judge their decisions and actions on the person themselves and the danger they pose to the public.
Until that happens we will sadly see more cases like the Nottingham stabbings.

TerriBull

If an individual presents as a danger to society and needs to be in detention, skin colour surely should be irrelevant. Those who reached the decision based on the spurious "over representation" theory should be held accountable. Three lives lost to a maniac on a random killing spree is just too, too awful.

The people who should be held to account are those ( in government) who sent out these directives on quotas.
Interesting piece on radio 4 yesterday Re how bloated our HR departments have become.
It was stated that it’s ruining businesses.

www.personneltoday.com/hr/edi-harming-businesses-and-bloating-hr-argues-think-tank/

TerriBull

Sometimes recreational drugs can accelerate or trigger schizophrenia, not that we know whether Calocane had a background of drug use, but it's often a factor that doesn't get divulged in such cases.

In the context of this discussion, it’s irrelevant as to whether drugs ‘caused’ his schizophrenia and I wonder you felt it necessary to bring it up?

Sometimes recreational drugs can accelerate or trigger schizophrenia, not that we know whether Calocane had a background of drug use, but it's often a factor that doesn't get divulged in such cases.

MartavTaurus

I don't know whether it is true, and it will need to be questioned, but one headline reads that .....
The killer was released early because he was black??

He wasn't "released early because he was black".

2020; first MH episode, no previous history.

<https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/feb/23/nottingham-killer-valdo-calocane-race-mental-health-inquiry>

"Calocane was arrested on 24 May 2020 after “repeatedly kicking and punching” a door in his student accommodation. A neighbour had to “restrain” Calocane before officers arrived, Langdale said.

Calocane, who was a student at University of Nottingham at the time, later had a mental health assessment where he described hearing voices. The assessment concluded Calocane was dealing with a first episode of psychosis, which was attributed to sleep deprivation and exam-related stress.

Langdale said a doctor involved in the assessment had been “leaning towards” sectioning Calocane due to it being his “first presentation of psychosis” and a lack of information about his risk history. However, a team of mental health professionals considered research evidence that examined the over-representation of young black men in detention.

It was then concluded that the crisis team could provide a “safe and reasonable alternative” and Calocane could be admitted to hospital if the community treatment plan failed. Calocane agreed to being prescribed medication and home treatment, including twice daily visits from the crisis team"

That primary treatment plan failed
and he was sectioned (admitted to hospital.)

Yep!

Sarnia

Yet another young person who waved red flags at all those who were in a position to do something but waited until innocent people lose their lives. It is an increasing problem and needs to be addressed immediately. Prevent, the Government initiative to remove troubled youngsters from our streets, clearly doesn't live up to it's name. Initially intended for young people with terrorism ideology I think it should be used for those with mental health issues and violent tendencies. They need to be in a secure environment rather than being free to walk our streets.

Margaret Thatcher's " Government Initiative " called Care in the Community is the reason desperately ill people like Calocane are on the streets, instead of being properly cared for in a secure environment.

<https://navigator.health.org.uk/theme/caring-people-community-care-next-decade-and-beyond-white-paper>

nanna8

We have heard nothing about it here and don’t want to, either. We have plenty of similar things happening unfortunately. Noticeably the Bondi massacres and the anti Semitism pervading the country.

Well I have to say we get bombarded with your news here. I shan't be so sympathetic in future.

Very interesting discussion on LBC about this this afternoon - Shelagh Fogerty. Black men 30% more likely to experience psychosis so inevitably would be expected to figure more highly in numbers needing to be detained. Public safety should be the only measure . Where ethnicity matters is in service design, accessing services, outreach etc not in decisions about detaining. As others have said, I can’t imagine losing someone to a preventable death. How could that ever reach resolution? The families fight for this enquiry is so admirable and I would like to think they’d get at least a little comfort from hopefully helping to bring about some improvements in the future.

TerriBull

If an individual presents as a danger to society and needs to be in detention, skin colour surely should be irrelevant. Those who reached the decision based on the spurious "over representation" theory should be held accountable. Three lives lost to a maniac on a random killing spree is just too, too awful.

I agree with you. How on earth do those families ever piece their lives back together? To think it was avoidable makes it even worse. I think there may be something in this, though. The grooming gangs consisting almost exclusively of Asian and Middle Eastern men were allowed to continue their disgusting abuse because the Government, Police and support agencies were terrified of being labelled as racist. That mindset has to stop.