Will you be watching the results?

MaizieD- for whatever reason I cant put links in my posts. Just google "Runcorn and Helmsby by election results May 2025" and you will get multiple media links/articles of the very close count and showing voting numbers. There was a recount several times I recall as the vote was so close between Labour and Reform. It was extensively reported in the press at the time.

Apologies, Cossy - my misunderstanding.

allule

As an aside on voting, it always worries me that postal votes are not secret. I think they should be restricted to the housebound… I would find it an effort to get to the polling station now, but would accept this if it brought back secrecy.

I've always thought that postal voting offered the greatest opportunity for manipulation. I was surprised (very cross) when voter ID was introduced as the risk of 'personation' is negligible compared with the risks inherent in postal voting and the risk of disenfranchisement is infinitely greater...

Why do you have such worries allele 12.18? There is no evidence postal voting is not secret. I think postal voting is great. Each individual gets their own letter, has to insert their signature, which is checked and can do it in the privacy of their own home. Plus you still get to vote if you are away on holiday. I really hope it's not restricted solely to the housebound. Society has changed and over 25% of votes at the 2024 GE were cast by post.

Reform UK stated in its previous "contract" in the Constitutional Reform section a pledge to Commence Reform of the Postal Voting System, but has no evidence or particular reason to necessitate this. The Electoral Commission made a public statement " there is no evidence of large scale electoral fraud" in the UK for any kind of voting, including postal votes. It is my personal view, Farage just wants a platform to complain about voting "cheating" when Refrom loses the vote- but has no such concerns when form wins the vote- very MAGA/Trump like!

Further the government is taking forward "Representation of the People Bill 2026"- a package of measures designed to strengthen the postal voting system and to make it even more resilient and responsive.

Starmer sent a rather tin eared letter to his MPs after the result.
It didn't sound as if he had learned anything from this result.
David Blunkett says he can't understand why the Green candidate was Green and not Labour.

Farage of course did not weaponise the Democratic Voters report, raising the same concern about 'family voting', in May 2025. On that occasion Reform UK won the Runcorn and Helmsby by election by only SIX VOTES!

I can't find a report for that election on their website, LemonJam. do you have a link to it?

As an aside on voting, it always worries me that postal votes are not secret. I think they should be restricted to the housebound… I would find it an effort to get to the polling station now, but would accept this if it brought back secrecy.

MaizieD 10.45: "But I doubt if this report would even have been heard of had not Farage picked it up and weaponised it".

Factually true from Reform perspective. Farage of course did not weaponise the Democratic Voters report, raising the same concern about 'family voting', in May 2025. On that occasion Reform UK won the Runcorn and Helmsby by election by only SIX VOTES! On that occasion Frage was jubilant and stated the Labour vote had "collapsed" yet Labour was only 6 votes behind. Reform came way behind Hannah Spencer yesterday, by more than 4,000 votes. Farage just can't accept that Reform seemingly has peaked or that Matt Goodwin was trounced by a working class female.

Hannah Spencer as a working class plumber and plasterer and won the vote emphatically. The moans and resentment from both the Reform and the Labour parties shames them, will do them no favours and they each will continue to disenfranchise voters if they continue with such behaviour. Starmer also has to grapple with the realisation his judgement not to allow Burnham to stand has lead to even greater disillusionment in his leadership.

What is it that both Reform and Labour find so difficult to accept that the voters in Gorton and Denton had legitimate reasons for voting as they did, rejected both their parties and voted for Hannah Spencer instead? Thats is disrespectful to the G and D voters. Whatever happened to the usual " its a disappointing result but we would like to thank the hard work and efforts of all those that helped..."

The Conservative vote was an emphatic embarassment- the party has become a non entity. Kemi Badenoch's statement on X was delusional.

On alleged “family voting”.

A post on another platform:

As someone who has run Polling Stations as a Presiding Officer for every election and referendum, national and local, for well over 40 years, I am baffled by the ‘family voting’ furore. A core duty of the PO is to maintain secrecy and only a PO may assist a voter in casting their vote - except for blind voters being assisted by a companion. In both circumstances, a meticulous record must be maintained. If this practice occurred, then there are only three possibilities: (a) the PO was not doing their job, (b), the PO and the POs staff were complicit, or, (c) that they were intimidated to comply. If it happened in the presence of authorised observers (when staff would be at their sharpest as regards to procedures) then it is even more extraordinary. Something about this story seems very odd indeed. I am not saying it didn’t happen, but the question is: how did it happen if it did happen?

From Democracy Volunteers own website.

Democracy Volunteers deployed four accredited election observers across the Gorton and Denton Westminster Parliamentary By-election today. The team attended 22 of the 45 polling stations in the constituency, spending between 30 and 45 minutes in each.

(I wonder why they chose those 22 and not the other 23?)

A minimum and maximum of 11-17 hours of observation when 45 stations would have been open from 7:00 am to 10:00 pm, a total of 675 hours.

The observer team [claims they] saw “family voting” in 15 of the 22 polling stations observed, 32 cases in total, nine cases in one polling station alone.

The team observed a sample of 545 voters casting their vote - 12% of those voters observed either “caused or were affected” by family voting.

545 x 12% is 65. This suggests DV saw 32 “pairs” of people in a booth together.

36,814 votes were counted. So, over the course of the day, DV observed fewer than 1.5% of the total votes counted and saw 32 incidents of two people in a booth.

It’s all a bit of reach, isn’t it, resulting in this response from Suella Braverman:

Sectarian politics is ripping our country apart. If people don’t wake up to this now we will lose all that is good about Britain … Our electoral system is at a tipping point. First it was postal votes, and now it’s en-block family voting through the subjugation of women. It goes against the democratic foundations of this country, which have been built over nearly 1,000 years.

A reminder that the 2024 Reform "contract" said:

^ We will stop postal voting except for the elderly, disabled or those who can't leave their homes.^

So you won't be able to vote if your life and work commitments means you can't get to a polling station in your constituency - from a party that wants more people to work but doesn't like people working from home.

Braverman needs to read about what constitutes political sectarianism.

Three core ingredients: othering, aversion and moralisation.

Ask yourself which of the G&D candidates engaged in those three things. It wasn't Spencer.

Pretty spot on, Maizie. Corbyn offered a shopping list of everything that needed to be put right and generous funding for same.

Big on Idealism but not believable or credible. It was embarrassing campaigning for him, which I did. On the doorstep. "where is he going to get the money from"

Also he had set up an alternative HQ to "rule" from outside of the usual structures. Like others say, a nice man, but not a realist nor someone one could imagine dealing with matters on the international stage well.

Anniebach

Corbyn delivered the worse general election result since 1935

Exactly. I have no issue with him but many of the electorate did.

Ilovecheese

I agree with you Samwam. The manifesto under Corbyn was not radical at all.
I tried to read "The Fraud" but it was a bit conspiracy theory ish, I thought. ( and the print was a bit small).
The Green Party will now get the Corbyn treatment .

I agree with both of you.

Corbyn's manifestos were absolutely fine and not in the least bit extreme.

Corbyn was no better leader than Starmer, though. He should never have agreed to the 2019 election when the tories were on the ropes...Lovely man but no political nous...

Corbyn delivered the worse general election result since 1935

Galaxy

I was about to say. I have no idea what the results of the investigation will be but whether a small influence or none, is not really the point.

Of course it's not the point.

But I doubt if this report would even have been heard of had not Farage picked it up and weaponised it.

I agree with you Samwam. The manifesto under Corbyn was not radical at all.
I tried to read "The Fraud" but it was a bit conspiracy theory ish, I thought. ( and the print was a bit small).
The Green Party will now get the Corbyn treatment .

Since 2015 2020 Labour staffers were doing everything they could to bring down Jeremy Corbyn he got relected with even more votes.
2017 Labour Together with Morgan Mcsweeny, getting milions from unnamed individuals and Mandelson working to get Starmer in and undermine Corbyn and Labour.
There is a book all about this called The Fraud, there is to be an independent inquiry. Labour in 2017 nearly won the election and in 2019 had more votes than Starmer in 2024. I'm glad Greens won.Starmers response to loosing Gorton and Denton was saying he is attacking the far right and far left instead of saying he is listening and will do better. Labour under Corbyn was not far left or very radical just about a fairer tax system redistribute wealth by taxing the richest 1% our NHS and public services what's radical about that.

I was about to say. I have no idea what the results of the investigation will be but whether a small influence or none, is not really the point.

Well the issue of family voting is being investigated and rightly so and whether it affected the outcome or not it's not how we carry out elections in this country.

Dorisdodar

Nothing wrong at all in having investment properties...just don't think it's alighned with Green party policy.

She bought one property alone and a second property, a complete wreck of a property according to media reports, with her ex-partner. Whilst together, they completely renovated the property with Hannah doing much of the “donkey work”

Now they’ve split up that property is on the market.

I’m not awarw of a third property.

Chocolatelovinggran

Cossy, why do you feel it necessary to question the integrity of presiding officers?
Surely, if we are to believe anyone, it would be the person with nothing to gain, or lose, from the vote.

Sorry, I’m not the one questioning the presiding officers, I do believe them, I think we have our wires crossed here. My question was rhetoric as other posters appear to think there is some credence given to this “family voting”

mae13

High time for Sir Keir to call it quits and this result proves it.

If only he hadn't decided to have a tantrum about Andy Burnham's attempt to become the Labour candidate, stamping his little foot and voting "No!" at the prospect: how different it all could have been.

Instead, the Tory-Lite Labour party got an almighty custard pie in the face.

Thanks Sir Keir, dear.

I’d say Labour got a huge wake up call and should use these results to re-evaluate how he and Labour are perceived by voters, their communications strategy and how he comes across personally.

As I’m not a Starmer hater, and realise that sadly far left Corbin, who lost two elections very badly that Labour are not Tory-lite, they are Centre left.

Muslims represent 3 out of every 10 people in this area. It’s quite likely Green’s would have won this seat even without the so-called “family voting”, which, if it did indeed happen, would have been a very small percentage.

In modern day England most Muslim woman, especially younger ones, go onto to University, then have jobs. Marry and continue to work. This vision some of you have about Muslim women is completely outdated and doesn’t apply to many. Have you met, socialised or worked with any Muslim women?

There are even (shock horror) gay Muslims!

The fact that some Muslims preferred to vote for a white woman, representing a party led by a gay Jewish man, rather than a white male representing a far right party, says it all really.

Nothing wrong at all in having investment properties...just don't think it's alighned with Green party policy.

Graphite

Today’s result is a wake up call to Labour, if they haven’t already, that the two-party system is dying.

FPTP currently leaves 76% of voters not being represented in Westminster by someone who shares their values.

At the time of the Caerphilly by-election, when there much talk about the Senedd’s adoption of PR using the D’Hondt system from 2026, I took the time to work out how the Caerphilly result, IF extrapolated across Wales, would have manifested as seats.

Just as an exercise, applying the G&D voting numbers, the Greens would have 3 seats to every 2 for Reform and 1 for Labour.

The Greens would have 48 seats, Reform 32 and Labour 16.

49 is needed for an overall majority.

It is just an exercise and doesn't guarantee a trend. Nevertheless, Labour needs be thinking about introducing PR as a way to have some say in government come 2026 and how it might find common ground with the Greens rather than trying to appease Reform.

I agree

MayBee70

Primrose53

thenegotiator.co.uk/news/regulation-law-news/high-profile-green-party-figure-branded-property-hoarding-hypocrite/

To be fair to her in her speech I think she said that if people work hard they deserve to see the results of that endeavour ( I guess that means it’s ok to be aspirational but then again that was Baroness Warsi’s reason for being a Conservative).

What is the issue with this hard working young woman investing her money?
It’s not unusual for investment properties to be seen as a future pension.