Will you be watching the results?

I heard a number of people who could be described as ‘Muslim shopkeepers’ interviewed yesterday. My conclusion is they were well aware of the Greens views on LGBT. Like other younger voters in eg Levrnshulme, they’re well informed. I expect the Green Party views on Gaza played a big part in where many in the Muslim community put their vote

Primrose53

sixandahalf

All Muslim shopkeepers don't know what they are voting for or just some of them?

They knew they weren't voting for facists I expect.

They didn’t know they were voting for supporters of LGBQT+ though which they don’t approve of.

I can't help but wonder what drives this sort of thing.

How can you be in the mind of " Muslim shopkeepers"

How can you know what drives thousands of people to vote the way they do?

The country is ** for some of us but pointing a fingure at Muslims isn't the way forward.

According to some reporting it happened in 1983 but I can't find the information on that result.

Is this the first time ever that the Conservatives lost their deposit?

Do think Starmer is a weak leader, but he does handle Trump well through all his various tantrums. I do wonder if Trump is all there. America kept Biden in power when he was clearly ill.
The results of the Election was an expected loss for Labour. Surely now they will examine why and deal with it. Rachel and Keir not doing a good job only marginally better than Angela.

mae13

Casdon

The custard pie is reserved for the bad losers mael, the ‘We lost a seat we deserved to win and it’s everybody else’s fault’ party. It was also a bad defeat for Labour, but at least Sir Keir isn’t a whiner.

That's probably because Mister Keir Starmer isn't anything much.

He'll go down in political history for being utterly devoid of backbone. And readily licking Trump's boots.

Although I think Starmer is a weak leader he's not licking boots, he handles Trumps tantrums calmly which is the best we can expect. He has banned the US from using any British bases, including Cyprus or Diego Garcia for an attack on Iran

Casdon

The custard pie is reserved for the bad losers mael, the ‘We lost a seat we deserved to win and it’s everybody else’s fault’ party. It was also a bad defeat for Labour, but at least Sir Keir isn’t a whiner.

That's probably because Mister Keir Starmer isn't anything much.

He'll go down in political history for being utterly devoid of backbone. And readily licking Trump's boots.

Parties are only willing to discuss PR when they’re not in power. It’s as if FPTPgot them in so it must be the best idea.

All I was doing was playing with the numbers to see how PR would work based on the votes cast in Caerphilly and G&D.

I have nothing to extrapolate the numbers to for the rest of the UK, as if it did ever get PR it would depend on how many larger constituencies there would be.

Wales will have 16 (based on pairing 32 UK Parliamentary seats).

So I used that as a base because the proportion of votes cast for the first, second and third parties in both by-elections was broadly the same.

It was just an exercise to illustrate why Labour will be foolish to continue to ignore PR if the Greens were to continue to gather momentum. Voting intentions show they are very popular with younger voters currently polling at 46% compared to Labour 17% and Reform 6%

Westminster currently has 650 MPs and the HoC is bursting when everyone is there.

To implement d’Hondt in the same way, the rest of the UK would have to be reduced to say 100 large constituencies to return six MPs a piece.

Present boundary rules stipulate that every constituency must have between 69,724 and 77,062 voters so multiplying that by six doesn’t sound feasible in terms of the size of constituency it would produce although the unitary models being proposed for council reorganisation will represent comparable numbers.

No it won’t happen as no one party would win every seat. It might with a total collapse of Welsh Labour but not in England and Scotland and N. Ireland with its many parties.

It was just an exercise in how PR works.

I don’t know what the answer is only the what we have now with FPTP is unfair and needs to change.

Casdon

You’ve confused me with the Welsh analogy Graphite, where do Plaid figure in your equation?

I don't understand that at all either.

Graphite Do you mean the Caerphilly by-election for the Senedd (not for the UK Parliament) which was won by the Plaid Cymru candidate?

I took the time to work out how the Caerphilly result, IF extrapolated across Wales, would have manifested as seats.

In a GE if using the D’Hondt system across the whole of the UK?

Or do you mean a Senedd election?

It would not happen anyway.

Casdon

You’ve confused me with the Welsh analogy Graphite, where do Plaid figure in your equation?

They don't. I did the exercise last October to see how many seats Plaid Cymru would win in the Senedd if the Caerphilly result was extrapolated across Wales ,just to understand how d'Hondt works. Each enlarged constituency will send 6 members based on votes under PR.

I've now just applied the same formula to the G&D numbers.

It wouldn't work for Westminster unless the rest of the UK reorganised boundaries perhaps based on the council reorganisations that will be taking place.

It's already bursting at the seams with 650 MPs under FPTP.

But we do need PR if we aren't to carry on with this undemocratic system where currently 76% of voters aren't represented by people they voted for and yet the government on just 34% has a huge majority.

I have lived in the same place for 42 years. 2024 was the first time the GE candidate I voted for was elected. Former constituency MPs have done their jobs, helping me on a couple of occasions to give government departments a kick up the behind but they have never represented my beliefs and values in Westminster. Far from it.

Primrose53

thenegotiator.co.uk/news/regulation-law-news/high-profile-green-party-figure-branded-property-hoarding-hypocrite/

To be fair to her in her speech I think she said that if people work hard they deserve to see the results of that endeavour ( I guess that means it’s ok to be aspirational but then again that was Baroness Warsi’s reason for being a Conservative).

You’ve confused me with the Welsh analogy Graphite, where do Plaid figure in your equation?

thenegotiator.co.uk/news/regulation-law-news/high-profile-green-party-figure-branded-property-hoarding-hypocrite/

Today’s result is a wake up call to Labour, if they haven’t already, that the two-party system is dying.

FPTP currently leaves 76% of voters not being represented in Westminster by someone who shares their values.

At the time of the Caerphilly by-election, when there much talk about the Senedd’s adoption of PR using the D’Hondt system from 2026, I took the time to work out how the Caerphilly result, IF extrapolated across Wales, would have manifested as seats.

Just as an exercise, applying the G&D voting numbers, the Greens would have 3 seats to every 2 for Reform and 1 for Labour.

The Greens would have 48 seats, Reform 32 and Labour 16.

49 is needed for an overall majority.

It is just an exercise and doesn't guarantee a trend. Nevertheless, Labour needs be thinking about introducing PR as a way to have some say in government come 2026 and how it might find common ground with the Greens rather than trying to appease Reform.

Freya5

CariadAgain

Whitewavemark2

Regarding the vote for non-English speakers - are voting papers only printed in English?

If those non- English speakers are entitled to a vote, then it makes sense for someone to help them with the voting paper, it could be a polling station official?

Why would they not speak English though - given they live in England?

Even if they didn't speak it fluently - they would know the names of the candidates and the parties and recognise them. So they just search their memory for 5 seconds and think "Yep...that's the candidate I decided and the party they are standing under". They would literally only have to have a few words of understanding of English and they would recognise the candidate they meant to vote for. So why would someone "need to help them"? Huh.........

As an add on, if you claim British citizenship,you are expected to have a decent command of English. That would not necessitate a "helping hand".Some thing very fishy.
How are the electoral officers chosen? As they were told about the suspicious goings on, was it ignored?

In UK, the right to vote is not limited to British citizens

www.electoralcommission.org.uk/voting-and-elections/register-vote#commonwealth

mae13

High time for Sir Keir to call it quits and this result proves it.

If only he hadn't decided to have a tantrum about Andy Burnham's attempt to become the Labour candidate, stamping his little foot and voting "No!" at the prospect: how different it all could have been.

Instead, the Tory-Lite Labour party got an almighty custard pie in the face.

Thanks Sir Keir, dear.

Burnham only wanted to stand because he had his eye on the leadership. He wouldn’t have bothered if Labour were still in opposition. He made a commitment to the people of Manchester when he was re elected as mayor. I don’t think he would have won the by election anyway. Corbyn lost an election and didn’t stand down. This is just a by election.

sixandahalf

All Muslim shopkeepers don't know what they are voting for or just some of them?

They knew they weren't voting for facists I expect.

They didn’t know they were voting for supporters of LGBQT+ though which they don’t approve of.

Galaxy

Sorry that was to those talking about the uneducated who vote reform, if that is acceptable to say, I will be saying it regularly about those who cheer on the green party.

If you are referring to my post, I suggest you read it again . It made no reference whatever to voters.

Oreo

I have never seen a police officer either inside or outside a polling station in all the many years I’ve been voting.

I have to say that neither have I. But then, I've never seen any 'family voting'...

Have you seen starmers statement.

The custard pie is reserved for the bad losers mael, the ‘We lost a seat we deserved to win and it’s everybody else’s fault’ party. It was also a bad defeat for Labour, but at least Sir Keir isn’t a whiner.

High time for Sir Keir to call it quits and this result proves it.

If only he hadn't decided to have a tantrum about Andy Burnham's attempt to become the Labour candidate, stamping his little foot and voting "No!" at the prospect: how different it all could have been.

Instead, the Tory-Lite Labour party got an almighty custard pie in the face.

Thanks Sir Keir, dear.

All Muslim shopkeepers don't know what they are voting for or just some of them?

They knew they weren't voting for facists I expect.

Cossy, why do you feel it necessary to question the integrity of presiding officers?
Surely, if we are to believe anyone, it would be the person with nothing to gain, or lose, from the vote.