Mr Trump Can't Shut This War Down........

Israel is not part of NATO.
Trump's war is costing one billion dollars a day.
There was no imminent threat to the USA.
What should we be grateful for?

fancythat

^The bottom line, fancythat is that a line has to be drawn somewhere, or Trump will make himself King of the World,^

I agree.

But what cost are we all willing to pay.

Financial?
Our children and grandchildren off to war?[including women].

Some of whom, will never return again?

If we don't, will our grandchildren have to do it?

If we resist meekly falling into line behind Trump now, there is still time for the saner US element to curb the ambitions of the orange peril and his puppetmasters by non-violent subtler means before the war infection spreads. If we follow, even if he does "win", and he inflates himself and US power more and more, it will be much more difficult to extricate ourselves from that position as satellites.

All getting like Vietnam. Just horrible and how Trump can claim victory against so many hidden enemies I don’t know. Hidden not just in Iran, either. Divided countries in the West , Asia and all over the world.

fancythat

If that is applied to me

Gratitude that the US continues to fund NATO to the tune of 62%.

Think what would happen without that funding?
Or worse still, it was used against the Uk and Europe?
And even worse, used to help Russia .
Or Iran. Or whoever they fancy.

There are things being to be quoted in the media, having been spoken by I think it was spokespeople from NATO, who are now thinking worst case scenarios.

I get the impression that the last 7 days or so have really opened some eyes there.
They are now starting to really think about how things could pan out.

I think a level of gratitude for the continued funding from the USA is required, however, this is gratitude towards the USA, not their current POTUS, who through his continual inaccurate comments about previous wars, shows he has little understanding of history nor the relationship between the UK & his country.

NATO would be up the creek without the USA contribution, and this needs urgently addressing. However, I would also say that, imo, Trump has broken NATO “rules” and the entire organisation needs reviewing.

There’s clearly a reason their contribution is/was so high compared to other members?

The reason is that their population is so high compared to other NATO members, and their GDP is so high compared to other members. The combination means that they have a larger wallet than most to spend on a defence alliance, and more people to defend with it.



worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/nato-spending-by-country so they have more people to defend against attack, and they have more pople trad

Sorry, some duplication there.

What do you suggest we do, fancythat ? What attitudes towards Trump and his wars would you take? What active part would you take in the world at the moment?

Not "We are all doomed if the big boy stops looking after us."

Elegran

The reason is that their population is so high compared to other NATO members, and their GDP is so high compared to other members. The combination means that they have a larger wallet than most to spend on a defence alliance, and more people to defend with it.


worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/nato-spending-by-country so they have more people to defend against attack, and they have more pople trad

But the US doesnt have to fund at all. If it so chooses.
And it may well so choose.

Cossy
NATO would be up the creek without the USA contribution, and this needs urgently addressing

Agreed.

Elegran

What do you suggest we do, fancythat ? What attitudes towards Trump and his wars would you take? What active part would you take in the world at the moment?

Not "We are all doomed if the big boy stops looking after us."

Not "We are all doomed if the big boy stops looking after us."

Well we are potentially. Aren't we.

Partly why I started the defence thread.
I want to further understand what is what.
Where we stand. And globally.

fancythat

Casdon

fancythat

By the time NATO has had a meeting and worked out a strategy, Trump has already moved on.

This is war.

It’s not our war. We will feel the consequences, but that does not mean we have to join in, we are not the kids in the playground.

It is our war.
We have already joined in.

It is not our war, we are standing with NATO in not taking any aggressive action. Have you grasped that this is not a winnable conflict and that escalation is the least sensible option?

As regards attitudes to Trump.

Being grateful for NATO funding.
Would we even want to forgo even 10% of what they contribute?

As I have said upthread 3 times now, I wouldnt have gone into the war at all.
Not a drone or landmine or whatever has been given or done.

Casdon

fancythat

Casdon

fancythat

By the time NATO has had a meeting and worked out a strategy, Trump has already moved on.

This is war.

It’s not our war. We will feel the consequences, but that does not mean we have to join in, we are not the kids in the playground.

It is our war.
We have already joined in.

It is not our war, we are standing with NATO in not taking any aggressive action. Have you grasped that this is not a winnable conflict and that escalation is the least sensible option?

And again. Do I need to say a 4th time?

But we are in it . Whether it is "our" war or not.Starmer put us in it.
Semantics are no good at this point.
Nor stats.
Nor history.
Nor wishful thinking.
Nor thinking about two weeks ago.

So we are where we are.

Sorry, 4th time as in, I would not have joined it at all.

fancythat

Casdon

fancythat

Casdon

fancythat

By the time NATO has had a meeting and worked out a strategy, Trump has already moved on.

This is war.

It’s not our war. We will feel the consequences, but that does not mean we have to join in, we are not the kids in the playground.

It is our war.
We have already joined in.

It is not our war, we are standing with NATO in not taking any aggressive action. Have you grasped that this is not a winnable conflict and that escalation is the least sensible option?

And again. Do I need to say a 4th time?

But we are in it . Whether it is "our" war or not.Starmer put us in it.
Semantics are no good at this point.
Nor stats.
Nor history.
Nor wishful thinking.
Nor thinking about two weeks ago.

So we are where we are.

Shall I say the same thing that you don’t agree with for the fourth time too? No, because I know that repeating things others don’t agree with does not change their opinion. You really are quite overwrought, and not hearing alternative perspectives, of which there are many.

Have you grasped that this is not a winnable conflict and that escalation is the least sensible option?
]
You said this.

This thread has 980 posts or something.
So you may not have noticed where I said I wouldnt have done anything with the war.
Else you may not have written what you wrote?

Why ask the question when I have already said the answer.

If you reply yet again about that, I will not answer.

And I have had enough of name-calling.

Any more, and I will report.

This is confusing. Who is name calling?

This war seems to be splitting the generations in the US. Younger people are asking what it's all for and is it worth it to them.
Older people are sticking with Trump and saying he is right to neutralise the danger to the US.
I wonder if younger people are better educated and question more where older ones just go along with Trump with little thought of why he is doing this.

There's an article in today's Washington Post about Trump's comments about NATO. Well over 1,000 readers have posted comments about it, thankfully it seems most understand NATO's role better than Trump and condemn Trump for his behaviour towards allies. They are also not happy about the war in Iran and the shambolic preparation. I know this paper is left of centre but I take heart that at least some Americans understand NATO' s purpose ie "defensive" and also understand why NATO countries are not supportive of this war.

^"I want to further understand what is what.
Where we stand. And globally."^

Where we stand fancythat as a country, is that our PM has made it clear that we will stand by our allies by helping shoot down any missiles that are fired towards them. but we are not going to join Israel and the US in any attacks on Iran.

Other countries have said the same thing. I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that only Israel has not expressed similar intentions.

NATO can't support this war as they are a defensive organisation (sorry to repeat what's been said). Trump just does not get it.

Trump is not the brightest button in the box, unless it is in seeing an oportunity for profit.

Maremia

This is confusing. Who is name calling?

No-one but some posters need the head banging against the wall emoji! Simple explanations do not seem to get throug

Why do you keep threatening to report posters, fancythat, just because they disagree with you?

Have you ever thought to read their posts and investigate properly instead of relying on Google and AI?

fancythat

And I have had enough of name-calling.

Any more, and I will report.

No-one is name-calling.