Stronger links with Europe? KS

If you’re referring to our military links we never did break all ties.
Of course we couldn’t be part of the EU command strategy. Other than that we share a lot of information.

sixandahalf

I happened to catch his speech this morning and it seemed to make sense to me.

Trump is dangerously out of control.

I just don't know any more, its frightening.

I liked when he said that the war on Iran is not our war and we will not be dragged into it.
Well said Keir.
No doubt Trump will be bad mouthing him as per, which certainly causes Keir to go up in my estimation, if Trump was praising Keir I would be seriously questioning our PMs integrity.

It is frightening, although putting into some form of perspective, Trump says and does a lot of very undesirable things, he also makes threats he doesn’t follow through and constantly backtracks.

He got himself and his country into this current mess because he was keen on “impressing” Netanyahu, who won’t be very impressed if Trump suddenly pulls out.

I can't get my head around any of it. I dare say somebody wil be only too happy to tell me Obama was a terrible person and made many errors but he seemed to have intelligence and integrity.

The quiet dignity shown by Keir Starmer in the face of disgusting insults from Trump shows who is the better man.
Trump has gone against his country's wishes and started a war at the behest of Netanyahu. This war is definitely not our war and Starmer is right to repeat this and not let us get involved in the attack as Trump wanted.

Yep, can't argue with anything upthread.

Yes.

Cossy

It is frightening, although putting into some form of perspective, Trump says and does a lot of very undesirable things, he also makes threats he doesn’t follow through and constantly backtracks.

He got himself and his country into this current mess because he was keen on “impressing” Netanyahu, who won’t be very impressed if Trump suddenly pulls out.

It is frightening, although putting into some form of perspective, Trump says and does a lot of very undesirable things, he also makes threats he doesn’t follow through and constantly backtracks.

Yes, he blunders and flails around, threatening this and that - one petulant outburst after another, and listens to no voices other than those in his own head. I think it's quite fair to say he's dangerously out of control. We definitely should not be willing to sacrifice our youth simply to placate the whims of this ignorant egomaniac and must do whatever it takes to bolster our defences against those that would harm us - including the current US administration.

The Navy were badly wrong footed with very little available for service, embarrassingly it was the French who sent their aircraft carrier and a fleet of escorts to the Middle East.

Starmer is taking the flak but it was the Tories that cut defence spending to the bone, interestingly it was Blair that ordered the 2 new aircraft carriers,

I don't know that the USA will ever get its pre-eminence back after Trump has ridden through & off into the sunset.

They are militarily very powerful but longterm that depends on their economic strength, & attracting the best scientific brains.As they lose global prestige, there are plenty of candidates to take up the slack.

There's unlikely to be such a chancer as Trump as candidate next time, & an idiot to boot, but given past form they'll vote for the worst option available to them.

Nevertheless it is America that has the manpower, the money and the control and Starmer's pusillanimous, petulant attitude did nothing to temper a very dangerous situation. He has destroyed our special relationship with America, which did have some financial advantages for Britain, but he despises trade.
His true colours are now emerging, desperate to return to the shelter of the EU which will shield him from making difficult decisions but allow him collective responsibility, and of course hiding behind the ECHR.
Quiet, calm, level headed?
Have you watched him on PMQs?

Have I moved into a parallel universe, where Starmer is solely to blame for Trump throwing his gold plated toys out of the pram because he is not getting his own way? I’ve seen some bizarre posts in my time, but that takes the biscuit.

He has destroyed our special relationship with America, which did have some financial advantages for Britain,

What financial advantages were they, eazybee?

Well America does have the "money and the power". "Control"? Not with Trump as president, he's the president of chaos who is completely without control. It is indeed a "dangerous situation", Trump has made it dangerous and thank goodness KS is dignified and straightforward whilst trying his best not to completely alienate Trump. Sadly the only way to mollify Trump is to do exactly as he wants and that is not in our long term interest. However, developing even closer military links with Europe is in our interest . KS has destroyed the special relationship with the US, Trump has done that.

I think we are stronger with our EU neighbours where defence is concerned but I hope Sir Keir does not see this as an excuse for the UK to go back to pre-Brexit days and I really think he does.

Sarnia

I think we are stronger with our EU neighbours where defence is concerned but I hope Sir Keir does not see this as an excuse for the UK to go back to pre-Brexit days and I really think he does.

Nobody thinks we can join the EU again. That would be a costly and protracted process and am not sure the EU would be in favour of this anyway.
We need to stop thinking of our position and that of Europe as being tied to Brexit, a new world order is putting our safety and the safety of European countries in peril. The US is as much a part of the problem as Putin is right now.
So as you say we need to get closer to Europe when it comes to defence. Being with Europe and without the US for the immediate future seems to be our only option.

What ‘special relationship’ eazybee?

That ship sailed long ago - if it ever really existed! What ‘special’ treatment has Trump given us … even before Starmer’s sensible refusal to be dragged into an illegal war?

Please, please, please Sir Keir Starmer, continue to develop closer relations with our genuine allies - Europe!

Trump's view of what our "special position" with regard to America should be at the moment is "bent over a barrel and submissively agreeing to whatever he demands". That is not being an ally, and particularly not being an equal defensive ally. It would mean being a subordinate attacking sidekick, doing his dirty work and sharing the blame for every incompetent blunder of his Department of War.

No thank you.

which did have some financial advantages for Britain
If there was an advantage to us you know that there was a bigger advantage for America.

When I read the description 'petulant' it is not Starmer that I see.

LizzieDrip

What ‘special relationship’ eazybee?

That ship sailed long ago - if it ever really existed! What ‘special’ treatment has Trump given us … even before Starmer’s sensible refusal to be dragged into an illegal war?

Please, please, please Sir Keir Starmer, continue to develop closer relations with our genuine allies - Europe!

Agree with this. America was great when Pearl Harbour was attacked and they had to come into the War. However, we had a bill to pay for this that was only settled a few years ago. Yes they have been a good ally in times over the years when there were sane presidents. However, their interests were usually of primary importance. Our mistake was to rely on them for military help in recent years and forsake the EU for a non existent “special relationship”.

I'm not a Starmer fan but he's spot on with it's not our war,Trump has made a huge error of judgement siding with Netanyanahu and is now back pedalling as fast as he can,his statement today that Iran wants the war to stop and Iran replies no ,never said that.The man is as daft as a box of frogs

Maremia

When I read the description 'petulant' it is not Starmer that I see.

Goodness knows, we are fed propaganda. But I don't see petulant.

Maremia

When I read the description 'petulant' it is not Starmer that I see.

Agreed. Petulant perfectly describes Donald Trump. His policies - towards his officers of state, his nation and his international relationships - all shift according to his fleeting geriatric emotions.