USA planes shot down

Well Trump has fired the top military bod, to the horror of the other military top brass, so I hope that is because they are disagreeing with Trump.

But I suspect there is little they can do.

Cossy I share your views on this.
There seems to be a sense of disgust and surprise that Iran should fire back or refuse ships owned by the enemy to use the straits of Hormuz. But notwithstanding how we feel about the Iranian regime this is a sovereign country under a concerted attack from the US and Israel. In a nutshell it is a war. So just how do we suppose Iran should behave?

Cost of 75 million: not a problem for a regime in the richest country in the world who cannot - or refuse - to tend to their own poor when they are ill

Someone killed? We'll see what the US public think. I'm afraid some will consider him a hero - I hope it gives more cause for concern as in "what is the point of this apparently useless and unplanned end game war"

Whitewavemark2

Well Trump has fired the top military bod, to the horror of the other military top brass, so I hope that is because they are disagreeing with Trump.

But I suspect there is little they can do.

There is lots they could do if the whole lot of them (i.e the ‘top military bids’) agreed. They could carry out a coup and remove the USA’s current insane leader.

Militaries do this constantly because they have the power.

All governing regimes rest on the threat of violence inherent in having control of the nation’s armed forces. Lose them and you lose power.

The question I would ask about this apparently simplistic solution is, which side would all those scary gun toting Americans be on? The military or the President 🤔

I hope the Americans find him first or that he sadly died as the Iranian regime will treat him with their usual barbarism.

And if we had been foolish enough to jump at Trump's command, this could have been one of ours.

I didn't know he had fired the man.

here are the details

"The defense secretary fired the Army chief of staff, Gen. Randy George, as well as the chief of chaplains and the commanding general of Army Transformation and Training Command.

and here is NBC news on the "why's"

www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/pete-hegseth-forces-army-chief-staff-randy-george-rcna266491

but I suspect he will have to do quite a bit more before the military shifts its support. Trump is giving them war for their appalling toys.

We would never have been flying missions over Iran Maremia and to be fair to the US it was never asked for.

It's the Russian/Ukraine war all over again. Putin invades illegally, thinks the Ukraine will be a pushover and now is stuck with a war that is dragging on and on with no feasible end in sight. Sound familiar?

Just to be very clear, I’m not in any way supporting the horrendous regime in Iran, or anywhere else for that matter.

For me, in a weird way, it feels a little like the Israeli totally ott attack on Gaza, allegedly to rid the world of Hamas.

None of it quite rings true and I simply cannot be shocked that Iran is reacting in this way!

What’s shocking, is the needless deaths in all these pointless and frankly hypocritical wars!

Much as I hate to say this, imo, Trump is just as bad as the despots he fights against.

There are a group of Iranian aquaintences at the gym of course with varying POV: but none of them wanted to see their relatives murdered in their homes: I've chatted at length to the most politically aware one, who has a sister in Tehran:

from the beginning he has said, "there is no viable opposition to take over, saying its to "Rescue" people from the regime is completely unfounded, wishful thinking: yes some younger Iranians had held out hopes, celebrated:

but don't have enough understanding of how political and social forces work to see the regime will just dig their heels in and get worse: murder more:

And he also said, that Iran has been preparing for something like this for 47 years, (not sure why 47, I'd have to look it up)

why the surprise at the consequences of attacking them, and the level of arms that Iran has and the plans it had made for such a contingency? Is poking the bear the best way to assist change?

Wyllow3

There are a group of Iranian aquaintences at the gym of course with varying POV: but none of them wanted to see their relatives murdered in their homes: I've chatted at length to the most politically aware one, who has a sister in Tehran:

from the beginning he has said, "there is no viable opposition to take over, saying its to "Rescue" people from the regime is completely unfounded, wishful thinking: yes some younger Iranians had held out hopes, celebrated:

but don't have enough understanding of how political and social forces work to see the regime will just dig their heels in and get worse: murder more:

And he also said, that Iran has been preparing for something like this for 47 years, (not sure why 47, I'd have to look it up)

why the surprise at the consequences of attacking them, and the level of arms that Iran has and the plans it had made for such a contingency? Is poking the bear the best way to assist change?

47 years ago the Shah of Persia was overthrown so the present regime must have taken over from that point.

wyllow3 47+ years since the Iranian Revolution. They have never forgotten what the USA and U.K. did in installing the Shah.

They vowed that the USA would never be allowed to interfere in their country again, and so have been preparing for what Trump is doing for 47 years. Things like vast underground tunnels networks, enriched uranium in preparation to become a nuclear power like its neighbour etc.

Fallingstar

Cossy I share your views on this.
There seems to be a sense of disgust and surprise that Iran should fire back or refuse ships owned by the enemy to use the straits of Hormuz. But notwithstanding how we feel about the Iranian regime this is a sovereign country under a concerted attack from the US and Israel. In a nutshell it is a war. So just how do we suppose Iran should behave?

Great post Fallingstar

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

Well Trump has fired the top military bod, to the horror of the other military top brass, so I hope that is because they are disagreeing with Trump.

But I suspect there is little they can do.

There is lots they could do if the whole lot of them (i.e the ‘top military bids’) agreed. They could carry out a coup and remove the USA’s current insane leader.

Militaries do this constantly because they have the power.

All governing regimes rest on the threat of violence inherent in having control of the nation’s armed forces. Lose them and you lose power.

The question I would ask about this apparently simplistic solution is, which side would all those scary gun toting Americans be on? The military or the President 🤔

Well that’s true I suppose, but it doesn’t tend to happen in a mature democracy.

If American servicemen are going to start being killed, or captured by the Iranians, IMO American public opinion will swiftly turn against Trump. I fervently hope so, anyway.

I wish they would fly Trump over Iran...and see what happens. He could be like a bouncing bomb.

MaizeD:
"The question I would ask about this apparently simplistic solution is, which side would all those scary gun toting Americans be on? The military or the President"

I would guess..........the President.
(New bunker under the ballroom?)

There have already been US deaths and injuries. How many will it take before the US population say enough to this president who promised no wars pre-election?

No surprise: related to the end of the British Empire plus US oil interests 😡.

I knew it vaguely but here is a list of our involvement: (its AI, but as ever each quote is attributed to the source)

Key Aspects of British Influence:

Great Game Power Play: During the late 19th/early 20th century, Iran was divided into spheres of influence, with Britain controlling the south and Russia the north.

Oil Control: The Anglo-Persian Oil Company (now BP), established in 1908, saw the British government take a controlling stake, ensuring Iranian oil served British interests.

Military Intervention: Britain occupied parts of Iran during World War I and combined with Soviet forces to occupy Iran again during World War II.

1953 Coup: The U.K. and U.S. assisted in a coup to overthrow the Iranian Prime Minister after he moved to nationalize the British-controlled oil industry.

While Iran maintained its formal independence, it operated under severe external pressure from Britain until the 1979 revolution

Thank goodness we have a PM who isn't going to repeat our past attempts to dominate all.

and the voices of those who would have had us join in ...well...

Whitewavemark2

MaizieD

Whitewavemark2

Well Trump has fired the top military bod, to the horror of the other military top brass, so I hope that is because they are disagreeing with Trump.

But I suspect there is little they can do.

There is lots they could do if the whole lot of them (i.e the ‘top military bids’) agreed. They could carry out a coup and remove the USA’s current insane leader.

Militaries do this constantly because they have the power.

All governing regimes rest on the threat of violence inherent in having control of the nation’s armed forces. Lose them and you lose power.

The question I would ask about this apparently simplistic solution is, which side would all those scary gun toting Americans be on? The military or the President 🤔

Well that’s true I suppose, but it doesn’t tend to happen in a mature democracy.

The USA doesn't seem like a 'mature democracy' these days.

I have to admit that my post was slightly tongue in cheek, but if the military were to refuse to co-operate with Trump what could he do about it?

(They won't, of course because 'military' tends to be rightwards leaning and usually act against leftish regimes)

Witzend

If American servicemen are going to start being killed, or captured by the Iranians, IMO American public opinion will swiftly turn against Trump. I fervently hope so, anyway.

Interesting, but was it not the Iranians being killed that caused their population to turn against their leader? Which started the US leader to kill their leader. Which causes the US population to protest? How does this stop?

According to the BBC News this morning, the pilot has been found but the other airman is still missing.

Both the USA and the Iranians are carrying out a large search and rescue mission, with the Iranians offering a reward for the capture of the airman.

Iran are paying people to look for the American who has been shot down Terrifying for him but hopefully his training will help him evade them.
If Iran do take him this will not go down well in the US and Trump is already on a downward spiral .
Iran will have a bargaining tool if he is caught so the US will be trying hard to find him.