Why doesn't Starmer hold another referendum?

Looks like it will be a case of Startmer who, by the end of today.

I'm already wondering who StarTmer is?

Twaddle. You completely misunderstand me. being Prime Minister is a very difficult jb, so we need someone in the role who is capable of doing it. If the current Prime Minister is not up to the job, and he clearly isn't and his party thinks that he is the best they have got and they have no one to replace him, then the best thing they can do is ressign and hold a general election and give another party and another person a chance.

Yes, an election might give us a reform government, although I think that is unlikely. This last election was for local elections and people often register a protest vote in local elections, but vote differently in a general election, but that is democracy for you. As SSir Winston Churchill said: Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried

MOnica Starmer is the best we have got because of the international situation. He stood up to Trump and we are not engaged in someone else's war. He works well with other European countries and at this dangerous time this is what we need.
A general election would be a disaster and cause chaos as would a change of PM.

I'm not a labour voter but I can see how unstable our country could be if we start changing PMs as the Tories did.

if Starmer is the best we can get, then I despair of the country. There is nothing he has done that should not be within the capabilitiy of anyone who replaced him. Plocy decisions, like getting on with Trump will be Cabinet decisions, not his on his own.

It was mainly Keir Starmer who got rid of Boris Johnson.

I’m hallucinating, I’ve moved into an alternative reality. In the world I lived in, aka the real world, Boris Johnson continually and consistently lied, he was the master of his own downfall.

Key Accusations and Findings regarding Boris Johnson:

Partygate and Parliament (2021-2023): The Privileges Committee found that Johnson deliberately misled the House of Commons multiple times regarding Downing Street parties, with the report concluding he lied about his knowledge of the gatherings. The report indicated he would have faced a 90-day suspension had he not resigned as an MP.

The £350m Brexit Bus (2016): Johnson consistently claimed the UK sent £350m a week to the EU, promising to "fund our NHS instead"—a figure labelled "misleading" by the UK Statistics Authority, even while he was Foreign Secretary.

Early Career Fabrications: Before entering politics, Johnson was sacked from The Times in 1988 for fabricating a quote, and later sacked from the Conservative front bench in 2004 for lying about an affair.

Suspension of Parliament (2019): He was accused of misleading the Queen regarding the advice given for the five-week suspension of Parliament.

Contempt of Parliament: The 2023 committee found his attacks on their investigation and his "campaign of abuse" against them constituted a further contempt of Parliament.

AI Summary of Boris Johnson’s top 5 lies.

ronib

So is it better that Brexit is reversed without a referendum? What price democracy?

I don't think the referendum has ever been an integral part of parliamentary democracy which relies on democratically elected representatives.

Except when they elect a reform government. Then it will be but the voting system isn't fair.

Primrose53

It was mainly Keir Starmer who got rid of Boris Johnson.

Somebody had to so well done Starmer!

Galaxy

Except when they elect a reform government. Then it will be but the voting system isn't fair.

The voting system, implemented when there were only two parties (and with a very restricted franchise, isn't at all fair. It wasn't fair when there were three parties and it is even less fair now when there are five in England and the nationalist parties in Wales and Scotland. It doesn't produce a result which represents different interests. The current government, though I was relieved when it 'won', is desperately unrepresentative.

It's time we grew up and replaced our adversarial parliamentary system with one which is more collaborative. Which we will only get with PR.

M0nica

*Twaddle*. You completely misunderstand me. being Prime Minister is a very difficult jb, so we need someone in the role who is capable of doing it. If the current Prime Minister is not up to the job, and he clearly isn't and his party thinks that he is the best they have got and they have no one to replace him, then the best thing they can do is ressign and hold a general election and give another party and another person a chance.

Yes, an election might give us a reform government, although I think that is unlikely. This last election was for local elections and people often register a protest vote in local elections, but vote differently in a general election, but that is democracy for you. As SSir Winston Churchill said: ^Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried^

So which politician from another party will have enough experience to handle the top job? Ed Davey had experience of being in the coalition government. In charge of the post office wasn’t he? Badenoch can’t be said to have more experience than Starmer. Farage has plenty of experience but not of actually doing anything other than talking the talk. And refuses to be interviewed by anyone that might ask him difficult questions that he can’t wriggle out of.

PR pretty much guarantees there will never be single oarty government again though - which has both pros and cons.

AGAA4

Primrose53

It was mainly Keir Starmer who got rid of Boris Johnson.

Somebody had to so well done Starmer!

And now Starmers own Party are getting rid of him! It’s a dog eat dog world in politics.

Casdon

PR pretty much guarantees there will never be single oarty government again though - which has both pros and cons.

Fine by me. We don't have a single party population, either.

M0nica

*Twaddle*. You completely misunderstand me. being Prime Minister is a very difficult jb, so we need someone in the role who is capable of doing it. If the current Prime Minister is not up to the job, and he clearly isn't and his party thinks that he is the best they have got and they have no one to replace him, then the best thing they can do is ressign and hold a general election and give another party and another person a chance.

Yes, an election might give us a reform government, although I think that is unlikely. This last election was for local elections and people often register a protest vote in local elections, but vote differently in a general election, but that is democracy for you. As SSir Winston Churchill said: ^Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried^

Nobody with any sort of political brain who actually cared about the country would ever suggest that at the moment.

Whitewavemark2

Yes I agree it should be in the manifesto - much more democratic.

I think the Brexit referendum was one of the most divisive, unsettling and disastrous things we have ever carried out in the U.K.

I so agree, but we went into the EU without any referendum.

Cameron was so sure that the result would be a resounding yes to staying in that it was a black and white yes or no. He never mentioned the cost of leaving.

What he failed to listen to is the large number of folks who felt that our finances were under German control, that EU was admitting countries without the funds to support their membership
and those who wanted our borders closed to the huge number of EU folks who were taking up jobs here at low wages and sending benefits and family allowance home for families not living here.
and those who never wanted to join in the first place abandoning our commonwealth

With egg on his face, he abandoned the work to unpick by resigning

Local elections are won by those who bother to even vote, with turnout averaging 15-30% of the electorate and including EU citizens (my personal view is older, and foreign nationals make up a large %) The only time you get a bigger turnout is for a specific issue like a local school closure etc

Then when results look like this, the lazy folks who did not bother will get off their backsides for the general.
(Labour did not even bother to put someone up in my ward last time!).

The East of England and Hampshire will be going back to polls next year when all the boundaries change and go to Unitary Authorities - if you have a 2 tier (district and county) you will be next, so voting will be revisited in the next 2 years for large numbers.

Starmer is blamed for not being decisive. I like that, he is considered. The knee jerk ban all under 16s is clearly not working, and how does it fit with giving them the vote - are we expecting a school year of kids to have some who cannot see what is being said, and some who are suddenly given the vote without having had access to social media opinion?

He has delivered sweeping change to the NHS (I can attest to massive improvements in access and waiting times), and on track to save vast amounts to put into the front end services. Quite a bit has gone into education and child benefits. There has been a lot of trust building with the EU and US not to mention saving jobs in industry, and with war involvement on 2 fronts, there has been fuel subsidy planning to find money for that we do not have, as well as digging us out of a huge hidden budget deficit that was sprung on him. He should be able to rely on his cabinet who clearly now are showing their true colours and a civil service that seems to have been less than they should in terms of information supply, not to mention the Andrew crisis. He is only one man and has been in power for just a year.

Well said FranP- however your opening sentence is misleading in you seem to be saying it is the voters themselves that are elected or even winners in the election game.

I did not vote for any of my now Reform councillors who won. They won because they had the highest share of the vote. The margins were as small as being less than a 30 vote difference in one ward.

I fear that if Starmer resigns we are in for a bigger period of chaos and conflict that we have already had.

I cannot see any good coming out of it at all.