Where is the balance and how can we live respectfully with difference? Radical feminist (TERF) beliefs versus transgender beliefs.

How can we knowingly accept a lie? Men simply are not and cannot be women. The legislation went too far. A particular concern of mine is medical research. Male bodies are completely different from female ones so including men as women potentially dangerously affects research findings. Men competing in women's sports is clearly unfair. Males in female prisons have sexually assaulted females. Abused, raped women have the right for genuine female only care. Is that enough to be going on with?

How can we as individuals treat transgender people with respect whilst accepting their male or female sex at birth?

We treat them as we would anyone else; with courtesy, politeness and respect. But that does not mean that we should be willing to accept a biological male in female safe spaces, no matter how he's dressed, how high his heels are or what shade of lipstick he's wearing. Women's safe spaces include changing rooms, hospital wards, toilets, prison cells, sexual abuse and rape crisis centres, women’s refuges, women and girl's community hubs (WI, Girl Guides, National Women's Register) and women’s sports. Other than that they go wherever they like, wearing whatever they like.

I’ll get pilloried for saying this I’m sure, but it’s not a topic that I’m interested in, I can’t be bothered with all the high emotion and posturing from both ‘sides’ around it, I let them get on with it, and it doesn’t affect my voting pattern, it’s a peripheral issue for me. Shoot me now.

Bang!

😂

I have posted on several posts this week and the conflict between TERF and Transgender debates has arisen as an issue of debate but is not actually the main topic of the post. Posts can then stall etc. etc.

So this post may provide a forum for such debate.

In full disclosure, I respect those that hold TERF beliefs. However I believe in the principles, as enshrined in the Human Rights Act, that ALL people, including transgender people should be treated respectfully and without discrimination. I believe there is no need to intentionally mis gender or dead named transgender people and potentially cause them upset.

On the 2 biggest conflicted issues- sports and single sex changing rooms/toilet facilities- Australia sought to solve the second issue by building more single person facilities to respect safe spaces for women. On sports, personally it does seem unfair that a transgender woman, born male, should fairly compete against women born female with different physical attributes.

How much do my beliefs influence my political voting patterns? On this issue only slightly, if only one party was offering a socialist agenda with regard to more public services and more financial equality, then I would vote for them. If two parties were offering the same, I would vote for the one that would allow women to preserve their private spaces.
Do I think it is permissible to misgender or "deadname" transgender people? Yes.

How can we treat transgender people with respect?
We can treat transgender people with the same amount of respect that they show to non- transgender people. (not threatening to decapitate terfs could be a good start)

It’s honestly not something I give headspace to. Far more important issues to concern myself with. I’ll join you in the firing squad Casdon.

Cardamom

^How can we as individuals treat transgender people with respect whilst accepting their male or female sex at birth?^

We treat them as we would anyone else; with courtesy, politeness and respect. But that does not mean that we should be willing to accept a biological male in female safe spaces, no matter how he's dressed, how high his heels are or what shade of lipstick he's wearing. Women's safe spaces include changing rooms, hospital wards, toilets, prison cells, sexual abuse and rape crisis centres, women’s refuges, women and girl's community hubs (WI, Girl Guides, National Women's Register) and women’s sports. Other than that they go wherever they like, wearing whatever they like.

Agree 👍 with one small difference.

I don't personally have a particular problem with transgender people being members. of WI or Girl guides but it must be a local decision and acceptable to the group.

LaCrepescule

It’s honestly not something I give headspace to. Far more important issues to concern myself with. I’ll join you in the firing squad Casdon.

Put me in there too.

As of 2026, transgender women in England and Wales will not be placed in female prisons if they have repainted male genittalia or have been convicted of any violent or sexual offences.

Casdon

I’ll get pilloried for saying this I’m sure, but it’s not a topic that I’m interested in, I can’t be bothered with all the high emotion and posturing from both ‘sides’ around it, I let them get on with it, and it doesn’t affect my voting pattern, it’s a peripheral issue for me. Shoot me now.

I entirely agree - that is why I began this post so people who have a key interest can debate ad infinitum. It doesn't affect my voting pattern either.

If men want to live as women, that is fine by me. If women wish to live as if they were men, ditto. But when a man says he is a woman and/or a woman says she is a man. Then we must agree to differ.

It is not that I do not have a lot of sympathy for those dealing with this conundrum. I spent my whole childhood wanting to be a boy. I was a girl who was always tearing her clothes in rough and tumble games and always joining in with the boys, fearless and daring. I even chose the name I would want to be called if I was a boy.

But in simpler times I accepted I was female and got on with life and have never regretted it.

Otherwise, I must say I am broadly in agreement with Casdon. As to it affecting my politics and how I vote, why on earth should it?

It depends on what or who is classed as "a woman" for me, though i would happily call them by a female name, if thats what they want.
A bloke sporting a beard, moustache and a floral dress i can never accept as a woman.

Yes, everyone deserves respect, but women's spaces are important, and that should be respected.

Cardamom

^How can we as individuals treat transgender people with respect whilst accepting their male or female sex at birth?^

We treat them as we would anyone else; with courtesy, politeness and respect. But that does not mean that we should be willing to accept a biological male in female safe spaces, no matter how he's dressed, how high his heels are or what shade of lipstick he's wearing. Women's safe spaces include changing rooms, hospital wards, toilets, prison cells, sexual abuse and rape crisis centres, women’s refuges, women and girl's community hubs (WI, Girl Guides, National Women's Register) and women’s sports. Other than that they go wherever they like, wearing whatever they like.

Yes I agree with you.
And any political party that thinks differently wouldn’t get my vote.

We can treat transgender people with the same amount of respect that they show to non- transgender people. (not threatening to decapitate terfs could be a good start)

Exactly this. And it would probably aid community cohesion if TRAs could desist from doxxing anyone who dares to point out that it's absolutely impossible to change sex unless of course they're transing as a clownfish as they've done to JKR for years. Oh, and maybe stop disrupting the monthly meetings in Manchester, that the African and Sudanese women hold to discuss their FGM and sexual abuse trauma. Police have had to physically escort the women to safety because the TRA baying mob outside keep trying to batter the door down and scream at them that they're women too and demand to be allowed in. Oh, and maybe respect that, when a woman says that she doesn't want to have sex with a biological male because, actually she's a lesbian; she shouldn't be harassed and publicly humiliated just because she doesn't want any "lady dick".

Yup, respect is key. And it goes both ways.

LemonJam

As of 2026, transgender women in England and Wales will not be placed in female prisons if they have repainted male genittalia or have been convicted of any violent or sexual offences.

Repainted?😄

What is *repainted male genittalia?* The mind boggles!

It's an important issue to me, so I wouldn't vote for a party that does not recognise the rights of women and is prepared to ensure that they're maintained.

As for how can we live respectfully with the difference I have nothing to add to Cardamon's comprehensive reply.

I don't identify as a Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist, and rather object to the idea that people who see sex as biological and don't believe in so-called 'gender' should be labelled as such.

Having said that, I think that everyone should be treated with respect and not discriminated against. I also think that excluding men from women's spaces and from competing against women in sport is not discriminatory - if they have male hormones and a penis they are not women, whatever they may 'feel'.

Unfortunately, there is no political party for which I could vote who is prepared to agree with what I see as a 'common sense' approach. I am a Labour voter, but they don't represent my views on trans issues. I voted for them at the las GE despite that, as there was no conscionable alternative for me. Should one evolve, I would be influenced by it.

Trans issues don't impact on me much at my age, but I fear for my daughter's generation, and for those who follow. If there is nowhere that women can go without the presence of men, and if the language no longer accommodates the concept of women being female and men being male, we will become a weaker section of the human race with none of the women's rights we have fought for for years. There will be no possibility of proving anything, as statistics will no longer separate male behaviour/health/wealth/opportunities from those of female humans.

I don't think that 'misgendering' or 'deadnaming' are real concepts - basically they mean not playing along with someone else's fantasy, and it is ridiculous to make them illegal. I would call Eddie Suzie for the sake of politeness, but would tie myself in knots to avoid referring to Eddie as 'she' when it is clear that Eddie is a man. Eddie would not be treating me respectfully and without discrimination if there were an insistence that I paid homage to what is basically a flight of fancy.

Oh, and I will not declare my pronouns either. I don't care what people call me when I'm not there, and when I am I would prefer to be called by my name. 'She' is the cat's mother, not a name for someone who is in the room. I use 'they' as a plural pronoun or when I don't know the sex of the person or people concerned - I don't like the way we are sometimes coerced into using it as a way of making sex-based pronouns redundant. They are not. I want to know if a taxi driver or doctor (or whoever) is male or female. It may not make a difference to whether I am happy to be treated or driven my them, but that choice should always be mine.

Oreo

LemonJam

As of 2026, transgender women in England and Wales will not be placed in female prisons if they have repainted male genittalia or have been convicted of any violent or sexual offences.

Repainted?😄

sorry for typo Oreo- "Retained" 🥱

Casdon

I’ll get pilloried for saying this I’m sure, but it’s not a topic that I’m interested in, I can’t be bothered with all the high emotion and posturing from both ‘sides’ around it, I let them get on with it, and it doesn’t affect my voting pattern, it’s a peripheral issue for me. Shoot me now.

Totaly disinterested and occasionaly perplexed.

Shoot me too.

Bang!

Casdon

I’ll get pilloried for saying this I’m sure, but it’s not a topic that I’m interested in, I can’t be bothered with all the high emotion and posturing from both ‘sides’ around it, I let them get on with it, and it doesn’t affect my voting pattern, it’s a peripheral issue for me. Shoot me now.

I'm certainly not going to shoot you - unless I get shot too. That's exactly how I feel.

It wouldn't be that difficult to define exceptions, so that (for example) female-only changing rooms remain just that and competitive sports have exclusion rules.

I don't understand all the emotion (and hysteria) around the issue. And I certainly think there are more important "women's issues" to be concerned about.

It would never affect my voting preference.