Where is the balance and how can we live respectfully with difference? Radical feminist (TERF) beliefs versus transgender beliefs.

Quite a few of us are going to get shot!

can I suggest another view on this subject. Transpeople are people whose mental gender is different from their physical gender, surely then they should be able to live across both genders.

For women that is not a problem. I think all of us have at sometime or another known women who dressed and presented as men, usually in gay partnerships, we have accepted them for what they are in the life they live and treated them as men, at the same time as not batting an eyelid or treating them differently from other women when in the Ladies loo or in medical and other biologically female spaces.

The problem is, that for transwoman that is not true. Someone with a female mind, dressing and presenting as female, is almost entirely unacceptable in male spaces, whether loos, male groups, prisons or the like. They are in fact walking into danger, everytime they walk into a male space.

Surely what we should be doing is working is making men as accepting of transwomen as women are of trans en. It is trans women making the running in this fight, because once they come out as transwomen they are excluded from male life in a way transmen are not. Were men to be as accepting of transwomen as women are of transmen so that men born with a female mind in a male bdy could live between the two worlds as trans men do, much of the heat and point of this problem would go.

MissAdventure

I feel exactly the same.
My grandson's friends were angry that a lad won "girl of the year" or something at their prom.

😲🤬

I don't vote on this issue.
I do vote on anti-racism though, as people born with a certain skin colour cannot choose to be any other than they are.
The same for people with disabilities.
I think the numbers affecting the general population subject to transgender issues are relatively low.
Trans people already have the rights non-trans people have under law but the focus tends to be on sport and which toilet/changing room issues they should have.
I just don't see why other people in the population should be over-concerned about these matters.
Use separate chaging rooms and toilets- most public or even private toilets are non-specific these days anyway.
Live and let live is my philosophy- but if you commit a crime you have to bear the consequences of being your birth gender- the answer is not to break the law and this applies to everyone.
Maybe I'm missing the point here- discrimination is wrong, but some people don't get to make those choices so yes, my focus would be on them rather than those who choose to mark themselves as 'other.'
We're all the same under the skin, with the same needs and wants- we shouldn't make ourselves 'different' and then harp on about it.
Yes, you can shoot me too.

Me too.

I am with Doodledog on this

I feel exactly the same.
My grandson's friends were angry that a lad won "girl of the year" or something at their prom.

Every man too!

"Oh, and maybe respect that, when a woman says that she doesn't want to have sex with a biological male because, actually she's a lesbian; she shouldn't be harassed and publicly humiliated just because she doesn't want any "lady dick"."

This shouldn't even be a "trans" issue. Every woman should be respected for not wanting to have sex with another individual for whatever reason.

Oh, and I absolutely do object to men and boys joining women's organisations. There are women who for various reasons don't want to be in situations where men are present, and there are plenty of organisations that cater for mixed sex groups.

I would not have been at all happy for my 13 year old daughter to go to Guide camp with boys in the tent, and if Gary decided to call himself Gladys it would not have made any difference to my objections.

Casdon

I’ll get pilloried for saying this I’m sure, but it’s not a topic that I’m interested in, I can’t be bothered with all the high emotion and posturing from both ‘sides’ around it, I let them get on with it, and it doesn’t affect my voting pattern, it’s a peripheral issue for me. Shoot me now.

I'm certainly not going to shoot you - unless I get shot too. That's exactly how I feel.

It wouldn't be that difficult to define exceptions, so that (for example) female-only changing rooms remain just that and competitive sports have exclusion rules.

I don't understand all the emotion (and hysteria) around the issue. And I certainly think there are more important "women's issues" to be concerned about.

It would never affect my voting preference.

Bang!

Casdon

I’ll get pilloried for saying this I’m sure, but it’s not a topic that I’m interested in, I can’t be bothered with all the high emotion and posturing from both ‘sides’ around it, I let them get on with it, and it doesn’t affect my voting pattern, it’s a peripheral issue for me. Shoot me now.

Totaly disinterested and occasionaly perplexed.

Shoot me too.

Oreo

LemonJam

As of 2026, transgender women in England and Wales will not be placed in female prisons if they have repainted male genittalia or have been convicted of any violent or sexual offences.

Repainted?😄

sorry for typo Oreo- "Retained" 🥱

I don't identify as a Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist, and rather object to the idea that people who see sex as biological and don't believe in so-called 'gender' should be labelled as such.

Having said that, I think that everyone should be treated with respect and not discriminated against. I also think that excluding men from women's spaces and from competing against women in sport is not discriminatory - if they have male hormones and a penis they are not women, whatever they may 'feel'.

Unfortunately, there is no political party for which I could vote who is prepared to agree with what I see as a 'common sense' approach. I am a Labour voter, but they don't represent my views on trans issues. I voted for them at the las GE despite that, as there was no conscionable alternative for me. Should one evolve, I would be influenced by it.

Trans issues don't impact on me much at my age, but I fear for my daughter's generation, and for those who follow. If there is nowhere that women can go without the presence of men, and if the language no longer accommodates the concept of women being female and men being male, we will become a weaker section of the human race with none of the women's rights we have fought for for years. There will be no possibility of proving anything, as statistics will no longer separate male behaviour/health/wealth/opportunities from those of female humans.

I don't think that 'misgendering' or 'deadnaming' are real concepts - basically they mean not playing along with someone else's fantasy, and it is ridiculous to make them illegal. I would call Eddie Suzie for the sake of politeness, but would tie myself in knots to avoid referring to Eddie as 'she' when it is clear that Eddie is a man. Eddie would not be treating me respectfully and without discrimination if there were an insistence that I paid homage to what is basically a flight of fancy.

Oh, and I will not declare my pronouns either. I don't care what people call me when I'm not there, and when I am I would prefer to be called by my name. 'She' is the cat's mother, not a name for someone who is in the room. I use 'they' as a plural pronoun or when I don't know the sex of the person or people concerned - I don't like the way we are sometimes coerced into using it as a way of making sex-based pronouns redundant. They are not. I want to know if a taxi driver or doctor (or whoever) is male or female. It may not make a difference to whether I am happy to be treated or driven my them, but that choice should always be mine.

It's an important issue to me, so I wouldn't vote for a party that does not recognise the rights of women and is prepared to ensure that they're maintained.

As for how can we live respectfully with the difference I have nothing to add to Cardamon's comprehensive reply.

What is *repainted male genittalia?* The mind boggles!

LemonJam

As of 2026, transgender women in England and Wales will not be placed in female prisons if they have repainted male genittalia or have been convicted of any violent or sexual offences.

Repainted?😄

We can treat transgender people with the same amount of respect that they show to non- transgender people. (not threatening to decapitate terfs could be a good start)

Exactly this. And it would probably aid community cohesion if TRAs could desist from doxxing anyone who dares to point out that it's absolutely impossible to change sex unless of course they're transing as a clownfish as they've done to JKR for years. Oh, and maybe stop disrupting the monthly meetings in Manchester, that the African and Sudanese women hold to discuss their FGM and sexual abuse trauma. Police have had to physically escort the women to safety because the TRA baying mob outside keep trying to batter the door down and scream at them that they're women too and demand to be allowed in. Oh, and maybe respect that, when a woman says that she doesn't want to have sex with a biological male because, actually she's a lesbian; she shouldn't be harassed and publicly humiliated just because she doesn't want any "lady dick".

Yup, respect is key. And it goes both ways.

Cardamom

^How can we as individuals treat transgender people with respect whilst accepting their male or female sex at birth?^

We treat them as we would anyone else; with courtesy, politeness and respect. But that does not mean that we should be willing to accept a biological male in female safe spaces, no matter how he's dressed, how high his heels are or what shade of lipstick he's wearing. Women's safe spaces include changing rooms, hospital wards, toilets, prison cells, sexual abuse and rape crisis centres, women’s refuges, women and girl's community hubs (WI, Girl Guides, National Women's Register) and women’s sports. Other than that they go wherever they like, wearing whatever they like.

Yes I agree with you.
And any political party that thinks differently wouldn’t get my vote.

It depends on what or who is classed as "a woman" for me, though i would happily call them by a female name, if thats what they want.
A bloke sporting a beard, moustache and a floral dress i can never accept as a woman.

Yes, everyone deserves respect, but women's spaces are important, and that should be respected.

If men want to live as women, that is fine by me. If women wish to live as if they were men, ditto. But when a man says he is a woman and/or a woman says she is a man. Then we must agree to differ.

It is not that I do not have a lot of sympathy for those dealing with this conundrum. I spent my whole childhood wanting to be a boy. I was a girl who was always tearing her clothes in rough and tumble games and always joining in with the boys, fearless and daring. I even chose the name I would want to be called if I was a boy.

But in simpler times I accepted I was female and got on with life and have never regretted it.

Otherwise, I must say I am broadly in agreement with Casdon. As to it affecting my politics and how I vote, why on earth should it?

Casdon

I’ll get pilloried for saying this I’m sure, but it’s not a topic that I’m interested in, I can’t be bothered with all the high emotion and posturing from both ‘sides’ around it, I let them get on with it, and it doesn’t affect my voting pattern, it’s a peripheral issue for me. Shoot me now.

I entirely agree - that is why I began this post so people who have a key interest can debate ad infinitum. It doesn't affect my voting pattern either.

As of 2026, transgender women in England and Wales will not be placed in female prisons if they have repainted male genittalia or have been convicted of any violent or sexual offences.

LaCrepescule

It’s honestly not something I give headspace to. Far more important issues to concern myself with. I’ll join you in the firing squad Casdon.

Put me in there too.