Starmer’s Speech today.

It’s also that pubs are closing because people go to the pub less often. If your argument was correct Cardamon they would transfer their custom to another pub that was still open, and increase its profits.

I'm disappointed with KS. I'm disappointed with Labour. I'm disappointed with people I suppose.

The country is not doing well, many people are in a bad way.
Why do some on here almost appear to relish this? Do they genuinely believe anybody else is any better?

It's not just pubs Casdon; it's all small businesses who are struggling to survive. We all know that the drinking culture in Britain has changed but, and this may be a surprise to you, they aren't the only small businesses in our towns and cities! Interestingly though, Rachel in Accounts is on your wavelength and has offered eligible pubs in England a 15% business rates relief (up to £110,000 cap) and a freeze on bills through 2029. Pity she's forgotten about the small independent shops, cleaning companies, cafes and coffee shops that aren't multi national tax evaders; they'll just have to sack off their staff and add to the benefits pile.

Catherine West, the stalking horse, stepping down after Starmer's speech because:
1) she was persuaded by Starmer's speech that he was the right person to remain as leader temporarily, until a timely step down later in the year?
2) and/or was persuaded by Andy Burnham's allies to hold off for a leadership bid at a later stage giving him time to secure a hoped for MP role?
3) or was not close enough to securing her 80 letters of support?

I was answering your specific point about pubs Cardamon. I don’t doubt that other small businesses are struggling, as are many people who don’t own small businesses. However, easing the financial burden on pubs will still not stop them closing if people don’t use them.

LemonJam

Catherine West, the stalking horse, stepping down after Starmer's speech because:
1) she was persuaded by Starmer's speech that he was the right person to remain as leader temporarily, until a timely step down later in the year?
2) and/or was persuaded by Andy Burnham's allies to hold off for a leadership bid at a later stage giving him time to secure a hoped for MP role?
3) or was not close enough to securing her 80 letters of support?

I think it must be c), Sky News are reporting now that 40 MPs are calling for Starmer to go. It must have been a maverick action on her part before she sounded out her colleagues.

Casdon

It’s also that pubs are closing because people go to the pub less often. If your argument was correct Cardamon they would transfer their custom to another pub that was still open, and increase its profits.

People don’t go to the pub often as a price of a pint/short is astronomical.
The young ones get sloshed, or take a few drugs before they go out do they don’t have buy so much booze once out.
Worse thing the government did was to allow 24 hr drinking. That’s another factor why the pubs are dead.

The plan by some seems to be to get Burnham back as an MP and turn him into a PM. They want Starmer there till September.
I'm disappointed about all of it because we have had the Tories playing musical chairs with prime ministers I don't want to see this again.

LemonJam

Catherine West, the stalking horse, stepping down after Starmer's speech because:
1) she was persuaded by Starmer's speech that he was the right person to remain as leader temporarily, until a timely step down later in the year?
2) and/or was persuaded by Andy Burnham's allies to hold off for a leadership bid at a later stage giving him time to secure a hoped for MP role?
3) or was not close enough to securing her 80 letters of support?

She hasn’t backed off though.

She is continuing to gather names/signatures to nudge the PM to stand down no later than September 2026.

This gives Andy Burnham time to be elected as an MP when a safe seat holder volunteers to resign…

MT62

Casdon

It’s also that pubs are closing because people go to the pub less often. If your argument was correct Cardamon they would transfer their custom to another pub that was still open, and increase its profits.

People don’t go to the pub often as a price of a pint/short is astronomical.
The young ones get sloshed, or take a few drugs before they go out do they don’t have buy so much booze once out.
Worse thing the government did was to allow 24 hr drinking. That’s another factor why the pubs are dead.

I think the nation’s habits have changed. Pubs got a lot of their money from men who stopped off for a drink on their way home from work. Factories have closed, childcare is shared, and women work now, so that is just not what most men do these days. It is partially down to people having less money than they did currently, but it’s a long term decline, because the way we live has changed so much. That’s why pubs which only offered drinks, but not food, closed first, too.

Another deathknell was banning smoking. I saw a change from 2008, onwards.
I personally was glad, but most of my friends smoked so it was boring for me stood on my own whilst they kept going out for a cigarette.

It’s Rachel from Accounts who has been responsible for so much of the unemployment we are experiencing now which then increases welfare payments. She has made it difficult or near impossible for employers to afford the employment of staff. Have not been able to understand why Starmer still supports her.

I think the Labour Party would be bonkers to announce now that they are going to change leaders in September. It would dominate the whole summer and generate in-fighting just when it should be rallying itself. That is exactly what its opponents hope it will do.

I don’t vote Labour and don’t much admire Keir Starmer but I do think that his MPs still owe him their support.

The biggest thing was smoking! Why go & sit in a pub that you can’t smoke in; when you could get cheap drink at the super market & smoke in the comfort off your own living room.
That was the biggest deathknell!
Plus now people prefer to watch Netflix, YouTube & catch up tv with a bottle of plonk & takeaway.

Smoking was indeed a deathknell.

Of course we could all wait to hear what in the King's Speech on Wednesday.

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-10585/CBP-10585.pdf

Graphite

Of course we could all wait to hear what in the King's Speech on Wednesday.

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-10585/CBP-10585.pdf

A voice of reason. That sounds like a sensible idea.

I thought the smoking ban was a great idea. It was only then that the majority non smoking population could go into a pub without choking on the fumes.
It also encouraged many more people to give up the noxious ludicrously expensive fags. Double bubble !

silverlining48

I thought the smoking ban was a great idea. It was only then that the majority non smoking population could go into a pub without choking on the fumes.
It also encouraged many more people to give up the noxious ludicrously expensive fags. Double bubble !

I agree with that.
I suppose back in the day smoke fumes were part & parcel of pub life. Customers said when ‘no smoking’ was brought in all you could smell was bo & furniture polish in the clubs.
I stopped going out as there wasn’t much atmosphere. Disco would be empty & club act ended up singing to chairs as everyone was huddled outside smoking. Infact I know someone who actually took up smoking so that he wasn’t left out.
Maybe I should have started another thread on this 🤣

MT62

The biggest thing was smoking! Why go & sit in a pub that you can’t smoke in; when you could get cheap drink at the super market & smoke in the comfort off your own living room.
That was the biggest deathknell!
Plus now people prefer to watch Netflix, YouTube & catch up tv with a bottle of plonk & takeaway.

Another death knell for pubs was the breathalyser and people gradually realising that it wasn't a good idea to get into a driving seat when drunk.

My father ran a very busy pub in the late 60s/70s in a semi-rural location. Most of the customers drove home after downing a few pints.

silverlining48

I thought the smoking ban was a great idea. It was only then that the majority non smoking population could go into a pub without choking on the fumes.
It also encouraged many more people to give up the noxious ludicrously expensive fags. Double bubble !

Me too.

You'd go home from an evening out, clothes and hair stinking of stale smoke even though you didn't smoke yourself.

Going to a pub now is like a breath of fresh air!!
Although I only go to one to eat these days.

Casdon

Well I’m very pleased that Starmer announced the
re- nationalisation of British Steel. It is the only way to save the steel industry in the UK and it’s vital to our future to maintain capacity here rather than relying on other countries, some of which are hostile.

Yes, it's a start.

Exactly Winterwhite. at this time stability is needed and the M.Ps should be standing firm , supporting their leader ,not playing into Farage's hands. What is wrong with them ?As for Andy Burnham, I heard someone on radio saying that there is a recognised way to become an M.P .Burnham should follow that. What makes people think that he would be any good?
I feel it's time to settle down, reflect and work together. Changing leadership didn't do the Tories much good.

It is all very well talking about what the Labour party want but we have just had a local elelction disguised as a general election where the electorate made it clear that they are fed up, if not with Labour, certainly with its current incompetent leadership.

I thought we lived in a democracy, and also in a society where people take responsibility for their actions. The chairman of Southern Water because he took responsibility for a disastrous performance over the past year by the company he chaired.

I think it is reasonable to expect the head of the govrnment to act in asimilar manner. Starmer is now a lame duck PM. His time in power is limited and he will always have the knowledge that people want him to go, surrounding him like a miasma,

He will have no credibility on any international stage and can no longer speak with any authroity on behalf of this country.

It has been an unedifying spectacle to see the way he has clung to power by his fingernails, refusing to go although most people want him to. Want a conteptible man he has proved to be.

MaizieD

^Once a communist always a communist, or rather, once almost a communist always almost a communist.^

Are you suggesting that Starmer is/was a communist? That is delusional, MOnica

He was in his youth close to being a fellow traveller, he was dertainly moving that way, but I am sute he was a astute then as he is now and realised that it would be bad for his future political and legal career.