Childhood influences?

That makes for terrible reading, doesn't it, twaddle. I wonder how she presented in school, or at home?
She is a danger to others and I wonder if incarceration will change her mindset, or simply put her back on the streets older and stronger after she has served her sentence.

Interesting. Both her parents were teachers but they were homeless? There is a story to be told there.
This young woman was clealy vulnerable and open to the influence of a man she met on a dating app at the age of 15.
I am surprised there was no psychiatric assessment?
I hope she receives the help she needs in prison.

It doesn't bear thinking about, does it? I really can understand why some people react if they've (for example) been treated badly or had a negative experience of "others", but it doesn't seem this is the case. Something in her mind has been triggered, but I just can't imagine what.

keepingquiet

Interesting. Both her parents were teachers but they were homeless? There is a story to be told there.
This young woman was clealy vulnerable and open to the influence of a man she met on a dating app at the age of 15.
I am surprised there was no psychiatric assessment?
I hope she receives the help she needs in prison.

But why turn to neo-Nazi ideology and hate Kurds?

twaddle

keepingquiet

Interesting. Both her parents were teachers but they were homeless? There is a story to be told there.
This young woman was clealy vulnerable and open to the influence of a man she met on a dating app at the age of 15.
I am surprised there was no psychiatric assessment?
I hope she receives the help she needs in prison.

But why turn to neo-Nazi ideology and hate Kurds?

Because, problems with her background, and, as keepinguiet points out, her home background seems very unstable, even though her parents were professionals. To be the daughter of teachers who are homeless, suggests a dysfunctional home. We know nothing of the political atmoshere in the home.

Many youngsters found guilty of lone wolf aattacks like this have similar dysfunctonal homes and the turmoil of adolescence canlead to them hating a world they consider is treating them badly and to personify it as being all the fault of the 'other' in society.

The immigrant or ethnically different person who runs the local shop or is in her class at school. People who may have stable and loving families and are academically successful in a way she isn't. From there it is a short step to hating all foreigners, to blaming them for all that is bad in her life to wanting them out of the country, ethnically cleansed, being attracted to Nazi beliefs.

Would that be true of all the people who seem to dislike foreigners? Have they all had dysfunctional backgrounds and are they all vulnerable?

For one reason or other, I've known a number of people with extremely dysfunctional backgrounds and I can honestly say they haven't turned to having murderous, neo-Nazi thoughts.

To be honest, I find the link between a dysfunctional background and neo-Nazi tendencies a bit simplistic.

I'm not even vaguely surprised by this article .
It is tragic.

I live in a pleasant leafy suburb - scratch the surface and out comes sickening racist rants.
It's horrible to listen to.

I'm not popular with all of my neighbours because I have a mixture of black friends .
I've even been asked when I'm going to move.
.

keepingquiet

Interesting. Both her parents were teachers but they were homeless? There is a story to be told there.
This young woman was clealy vulnerable and open to the influence of a man she met on a dating app at the age of 15.
I am surprised there was no psychiatric assessment?
I hope she receives the help she needs in prison.

This young woman was clealy vulnerable and open to the influence of a man she met on a dating app at the age of 15.

It was reported on the news last night that she had told a man on a dating app that the judge said you expressed the desire to kill all the Jews and Muslims in Britain, and also carry out a plan where you wished to take all the glory for carrying this out.

And that the man reported this to the police.

Sorry, I should have proofread.

It was reported on the news last night that:
According to the judge's summing up: she had told a man on a dating app that she expressed the desire to kill all the Jews and Muslims in Britain, and also carry out a plan where she wished to take all the glory for carrying this out.

It doesn't sound as though she was groomed online - quite the opposite, in fact.

This is from the BBC:

Five months before the attack, she had used an online dating app to speak with a man who she told to "kill all the Jews and Muslims in Britain please".

So she was the one doing the grooming.

twaddle

Would that be true of all the people who seem to dislike foreigners? Have they all had dysfunctional backgrounds and are they all vulnerable?

For one reason or other, I've known a number of people with extremely dysfunctional backgrounds and I can honestly say they haven't turned to having murderous, neo-Nazi thoughts.

To be honest, I find the link between a dysfunctional background and neo-Nazi tendencies a bit simplistic.

All people are different. and of course people with the same background will react in different ways to this background, The difference may be genetic, may be because no family is the same and there may be a slight differences in the domestic set-up its interplay with school etc, that can push a person one way ro another.

You may see the suggested link between dysfunctional homes and neo-nazism simplistic. but, like it or not, the majority of white neo-nazi teenage/ early 20slone wolf attacks are made by people from dysfunctional homes. Yes, a tiny proportion of all young people from dysfunctional homes turn to nazi ideology, but a large majority of young people turning to neo-nazi ideology and, especially those committing acts of violence come from dysfunctional homes.

twaddle

It doesn't sound as though she was groomed online - quite the opposite, in fact.

This is from the BBC:

Five months before the attack, she had used an online dating app to speak with a man who she told to "kill all the Jews and Muslims in Britain please".

So she was the one doing the grooming.

Sorry I must have mis-read. This does paint a very different picture.
A different topic but I watched the documentary last night 'Kidnapped by my mum.'
I feel there are parallels here, although the young man did take a big risk in walking away from what was clearly parental indoctrination.
I am sure more details will emerge about this young woman and her background.
I don't believe anyone is just born to be a Nazi.

keepingquiet

twaddle

It doesn't sound as though she was groomed online - quite the opposite, in fact.

This is from the BBC:

Five months before the attack, she had used an online dating app to speak with a man who she told to "kill all the Jews and Muslims in Britain please".

So she was the one doing the grooming.

Sorry I must have mis-read. This does paint a very different picture.
A different topic but I watched the documentary last night 'Kidnapped by my mum.'
I feel there are parallels here, although the young man did take a big risk in walking away from what was clearly parental indoctrination.
I am sure more details will emerge about this young woman and her background.
I don't believe anyone is just born to be a Nazi.

Of course nobody is born to be a neo-Nazi, so who did influence her? Because, sure as hell, somebody or something did.

M0nica

twaddle

Would that be true of all the people who seem to dislike foreigners? Have they all had dysfunctional backgrounds and are they all vulnerable?

For one reason or other, I've known a number of people with extremely dysfunctional backgrounds and I can honestly say they haven't turned to having murderous, neo-Nazi thoughts.

To be honest, I find the link between a dysfunctional background and neo-Nazi tendencies a bit simplistic.

All people are different. and of course people with the same background will react in different ways to this background, The difference may be genetic, may be because no family is the same and there may be a slight differences in the domestic set-up its interplay with school etc, that can push a person one way ro another.

You may see the suggested link between dysfunctional homes and neo-nazism simplistic. but, like it or not, the majority of white neo-nazi teenage/ early 20slone wolf attacks are made by people from dysfunctional homes. Yes, a tiny proportion of all young people from dysfunctional homes turn to nazi ideology, but a large majority of young people turning to neo-nazi ideology and, especially those committing acts of violence come from dysfunctional homes.

Sorry, MOnica, I just can't accept this. I do not believe that neo-Nazism has a genetic link. It is not a recognised mental heatlth condition. Unless her parents were indoctrinating her, she was influenced by somebody else. I just do not accept that a dysfunctional childhood turns anybody into a cold-hearted neo-Nazi terrorist.

"the majority of white neo-nazi teenage/ early 20slone wolf attacks are made by people from dysfunctional homes."

Where's your proof for that?

More and more it seems, modern life is not becoming better for people's mental health or well being.
The highly stimulating 'tech' of all types and lack of connection to community and nature must surely be deregulating our nervous systems. The results of this on some mentally vunerable youngsters are, as we witness going to be tragic.

Twaddle I did not say neo-nazism has a genetic link. I was talking more widely of the many factors that can affect how different people respond to growing up in dysfunctional home. The very word 'dysfunctional 'covers a myriad of causes and forms of dysfunction. How people respond will be an interplay of their personality (which will be partially genetic) and the nature of the dysfunction

My main point was that neo-nazi lone wolfs, like this woman, almost always come from dysfunctional families.

twaddle

It doesn't sound as though she was groomed online - quite the opposite, in fact.

This is from the BBC:

Five months before the attack, she had used an online dating app to speak with a man who she told to "kill all the Jews and Muslims in Britain please".

So she was the one doing the grooming.

And then he reported that to the police.

Counter-terrorism police were monitoring her, but not closely enough, it would seem.

M0nica

Twaddle I did not say neo-nazism has a genetic link. I was talking more widely of the many factors that can affect how different people respond to growing up in dysfunctional home. The very word 'dysfunctional 'covers a myriad of causes and forms of dysfunction. How people respond will be an interplay of their personality (which will be partially genetic) and the nature of the dysfunction

My main point was that neo-nazi lone wolfs, like this woman, almost always come from dysfunctional families.

Where's your proof? I did a bit of poking around on this topic and there was some interesting information about the definition of "lone wolf" and the inappropriateness of the term. There was also information about a link with mental illness, but nothing concrete about a link with dysfunctional families. That's why I asked for a source for your claim. I'm not denying it exists, but I couldn't find one.

The fact remains that people aren't born with hatred in their hearts. This young woman was influenced by somebody or something. Reports mention that she was homeless for a while, so a hatred of landlords or the rich might be understandable, but why would she pick on Jews and Muslims as objects of hatred? It must be that she is surrounded (maybe on social media) by an environment of hate, which should be investigated. She was 18 when she committed the crime, so it's likely that she was accessing material illegally.

keepcalmandcavachon

More and more it seems, modern life is not becoming better for people's mental health or well being.
The highly stimulating 'tech' of all types and lack of connection to community and nature must surely be deregulating our nervous systems. The results of this on some mentally vunerable youngsters are, as we witness going to be tragic.

Not just the youngsters! I don't suppose the man who was attacked (and could have been killed) is too happy about the results.

I wish people would stop making excuses.

Here's another one:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxejvvk9qro

There is no hint of a dysfunctional childhood, so where is the influence coming from?

Twaddle I have never ever suggested people are born with hate in their hearts. I am talking of people's personality and how that affects their responses to the same stimuli. I have two children with very different personalities and I can see how differently they have responded to family events and circumstances. One more uickly reacts with anger at events than the other. As a neurally diverse family i can see how these responses are driven by each individual's different neural diversity. The neural diversity itself is inherited from me and I can look back at neurally diverse generations before me. But genetic inheritance and its effects on people and events do not need problems like neural diversity to drive them.

But that's anecdotal.

I couldn't find any evidence that young people who go on to commit "lone wolf" (never mind racially motivated) attacks are more likely to have had a dysfunctional childhood. There is apparently some evidence that some killers, such as the ones in Dunblane and Hungerford, had mental health conditions, but they are not necessarily related to a dysfunctional childhood. In any case, those attacks weren't related to terrorism or race hatred, which this attack most certainly was.

I am still puzzled about how an 18 year old can have so much hatred towards Jews and Muslims. It's known that she didn't attend school from the age of 14, so possibly spent a lot of time online and communicated with Patriotic Alternative, an extreme right wing UK group. Although messages will no doubt have been encrypted, I expect what remains will be investigated.

Unless the girl was being brainwashed by her parents, she must have been influenced by some form of media. Like the Southport killer, she had materials she must have actively sought. I hope there's an enquiry and action is taken against some of the social media companies. The Labour Party has already started trying to protect under 16 year olds (despite the vocal moaning from Reform etc about freedom of speech). If anybody cares to leek, it's a Wild West online and the algorithms often specifically target young people.

Try using the serach terms how genetic inheritance affects personality. There are pages of references including peer reviewed articles on this subject.

keepingquiet

Interesting. Both her parents were teachers but they were homeless? There is a story to be told there.
This young woman was clealy vulnerable and open to the influence of a man she met on a dating app at the age of 15.
I am surprised there was no psychiatric assessment?
I hope she receives the help she needs in prison.

I’m amazed there was no mental health assessment too, it seems pretty clear she was radicalised and this is my fear with the rise of extreme right wing “influencers” and the likes of Yaxley-Lennon.

People who don’t believe that vulnerable young people cannot be “brainwashed” should read this story and weep.

Awful event, tragic and sad for all concerned especially the victim and his poor family.

My fear about her being simply locked away for years, with the UK’s poor record of rehabilitation, is that she’ll come out even worse than she went in.

She clearly was “influenced” by someone and went on to influence or attempt to.

My heart goes out to her victim and their family.

I would imagine her own family are deeply shocked and ashamed.