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Henry Nowak…….an absolute tragedy.

(798 Posts)
Sago Fri 29-May-26 08:41:07

How has the tragic case of this young man not caused outrage?

Imagine if he had been a person of colour or ethnic minority.

The Police handling of this case raises serious questions.

The killer behaved appallingly, lying to Police and then getting his family to hide weapons and cover for him.

It’s also astonishing to learn Sikhs can carry these knives in public because they are “ religious regalia”

For anyone that isn’t aware of this tragedy here is a link.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c70vy0kknj4o

Ilovecheese Thu 04-Jun-26 14:41:37

So to reply to your post Meandrogrog

The NHS suffers from long years of Conservative Government, when the coalition first took office waiting times were low and satisfaction was high. The waiting lists are coming down now because Labour Governments, in the main, want to keep the NHS . Things are improving, but need more time.

I don't worry about immigration, I think we control immigration as well as any nation can. I don't think it is "uncontrolled"

I would prefer us to rejoin the EU. I enjoyed feeling part of Europe and am sorry that my grandchildren may not have the same opportunities to study and live in Europe as were there for my children.

I was glad that a Labour Government replaced the Conservatives, although I would like to see more left wing policies and greater redistribution of the countries wealth. I don't object at all to paying tax towards a decent society. I see tax as a positive, not a negative.

I am not in a position to comment about the training that the police receive as I have not been through it. I have heard what other people think about it, but usually those people have not been through it either, so I take what they say with a pinch of salt.

Knife crime, I know has gone down in the last couple of years. Still a problem, but reducing.

I have no information regarding drugs in primary schools, so can't really comment on that.

Teachers deserve more support and more assistance, but that costs money which we are not willing to contribute through taxes, it seems. I think our education system is too geared towards testing at the expense of a wider education.

I would prefer our water to be Nationalised, as I think it was run more effectively without a profit motive, but as long as London and the South are given priority I can't see any other answer than to build housing for people there.

So seems we are a long way apart politically.

Can I ask another question though. What policies would you like to see from a Reform Government that would address your main concerns?

Elsi Thu 04-Jun-26 14:42:00

MaisieD. Well I suggest you go and read and see the full details of this atrocity

AGAA4 Thu 04-Jun-26 14:47:49

Ilovecheese 👏👏👏

sundowngirl Thu 04-Jun-26 15:01:41

Ilovecheese - I don't worry about immigration, I think we control immigration as well as any nation can. I don't think it is "uncontrolled"

What would you call the illegal migrants continually landing on our shores - now numbering more than 200,000? Do you think these are 'controlled'? Or by ferrying them across the channel and finding them accommodation, you consider this is controlling them?

sundowngirl Thu 04-Jun-26 15:07:45

surfsup - thank you for sharing. It is so very sad to read Dr. Krzysztof Magier's opinion about whether Henry Nowak could have been saved. I guess we will never know

Maremia Thu 04-Jun-26 15:21:27

Going back to Meandrogrogs question about how do we know a Reform government would not be good for this country?
Simple
How well does Farage perform as the MP for Clacton?
How often has he appeared in Parliament?
How much support did he give our fishing fleet when BREXIT was being negotiated?
All I have to do is look and see what he has actually, materially done for any citizen.
He has done nothing
He will do nothing.
Simple

LizzieDrip Thu 04-Jun-26 15:23:14

Ilovecheese hear, hear👏👏👏

Ilovecheese Thu 04-Jun-26 15:40:45

sundowngirl

Ilovecheese - I don't worry about immigration, I think we control immigration as well as any nation can. I don't think it is "uncontrolled"

What would you call the illegal migrants continually landing on our shores - now numbering more than 200,000? Do you think these are 'controlled'? Or by ferrying them across the channel and finding them accommodation, you consider this is controlling them?

What period of time does your figure of 200.000 cover?

But again, I think we are controlling the numbers of people arriving in this way, as well as any nation can. I think we have given money to France for them to help? It is not easy. But I can't say it is a great worry to me.

I am not sure what you mean by "ferrying them across the channel and finding them accomodation"

Do you mean rescuing them from drowning and bringing them ashore and finding them accomodation? If so, I think that any decent nation would do the same.

What would you like a Reform Govt. to do instead?

Meandrogrog Thu 04-Jun-26 16:14:53

Ilovecheese

So to reply to your post Meandrogrog

The NHS suffers from long years of Conservative Government, when the coalition first took office waiting times were low and satisfaction was high. The waiting lists are coming down now because Labour Governments, in the main, want to keep the NHS . Things are improving, but need more time.

I don't worry about immigration, I think we control immigration as well as any nation can. I don't think it is "uncontrolled"

I would prefer us to rejoin the EU. I enjoyed feeling part of Europe and am sorry that my grandchildren may not have the same opportunities to study and live in Europe as were there for my children.

I was glad that a Labour Government replaced the Conservatives, although I would like to see more left wing policies and greater redistribution of the countries wealth. I don't object at all to paying tax towards a decent society. I see tax as a positive, not a negative.

I am not in a position to comment about the training that the police receive as I have not been through it. I have heard what other people think about it, but usually those people have not been through it either, so I take what they say with a pinch of salt.

Knife crime, I know has gone down in the last couple of years. Still a problem, but reducing.

I have no information regarding drugs in primary schools, so can't really comment on that.

Teachers deserve more support and more assistance, but that costs money which we are not willing to contribute through taxes, it seems. I think our education system is too geared towards testing at the expense of a wider education.

I would prefer our water to be Nationalised, as I think it was run more effectively without a profit motive, but as long as London and the South are given priority I can't see any other answer than to build housing for people there.

So seems we are a long way apart politically.

Can I ask another question though. What policies would you like to see from a Reform Government that would address your main concerns?

Thank you for your reply.

I dont want to hijack this thread to become too political, maybe another thread can be started about the merits or not of Labour/Reform.

It seems that the diversity training of the police may be changed and I really hope it is. It does seem that the fear of being accused of being racist is overshadowing all other considerations. Imo it has been taken to the extreme and benefits no one in the end.

Meandrogrog Thu 04-Jun-26 16:17:17

Basgetti

I disagree almost entirely with your opinions, Meandrogrog but you are, of course, entitled to hold them.
(Who’s rogrog? 😁)

That is fine to disagree, and I am sure I would with your views but you are just as entitled to hold them ☺️

My husband is called Roger and rogrog is my affectionate name for him.

Oreo Thu 04-Jun-26 16:36:36

Meandrogrog

Basgetti

Ilovecheese

I wonder can I ask Meandrogrog, what you think are the main problems this country has, and what you would like Nigel Farage to do, should he come to power?

Second this question. It’s all very well saying Reform is the UK’s only chance, but you need to spell out exactly why.

I wrote out a long post earlier!

Actually no poster need to spell anything out for the benefit of another poster.
I think at this point many people are saying to themselves ‘could Reform be any worse than this particular Labour government’.
The only thing that could save Labour now is if Andy Burnham wins the Makerfield by-election and then wins the PM position and then electrifies the Party by showing vision and passion.

Boz Thu 04-Jun-26 16:52:34

Burnham has his work cut out because Reform will try and capitalise on the current controversy under discussion.

Silvershadow Thu 04-Jun-26 17:07:06

Has Burnham, as prime minister in waiting, said what he thinks of all this? Have I missed his comments?

MayBee70 Thu 04-Jun-26 17:34:39

Oreo

Meandrogrog

Basgetti

Ilovecheese

I wonder can I ask Meandrogrog, what you think are the main problems this country has, and what you would like Nigel Farage to do, should he come to power?

Second this question. It’s all very well saying Reform is the UK’s only chance, but you need to spell out exactly why.

I wrote out a long post earlier!

Actually no poster need to spell anything out for the benefit of another poster.
I think at this point many people are saying to themselves ‘could Reform be any worse than this particular Labour government’.
The only thing that could save Labour now is if Andy Burnham wins the Makerfield by-election and then wins the PM position and then electrifies the Party by showing vision and passion.

So what vision do Reform have apart from xenophobia and racism?

BoggledMind Thu 04-Jun-26 17:41:17

Silvershadow

Has Burnham, as prime minister in waiting, said what he thinks of all this? Have I missed his comments?

Good point. I had to search online.

The official Mayor of Greater Manchester Facebook page has a comment from him. Unfortunately, I'm having difficulty publishing a link as I don't have FB. Those of you on there may find it easier.

Boz Thu 04-Jun-26 17:44:54

MayBee70

Oreo

Meandrogrog

Basgetti

Ilovecheese

I wonder can I ask Meandrogrog, what you think are the main problems this country has, and what you would like Nigel Farage to do, should he come to power?

Second this question. It’s all very well saying Reform is the UK’s only chance, but you need to spell out exactly why.

I wrote out a long post earlier!

Actually no poster need to spell anything out for the benefit of another poster.
I think at this point many people are saying to themselves ‘could Reform be any worse than this particular Labour government’.
The only thing that could save Labour now is if Andy Burnham wins the Makerfield by-election and then wins the PM position and then electrifies the Party by showing vision and passion.

So what vision do Reform have apart from xenophobia and racism?

No vision needed, just the tools to beat Labour.

westendgirl Thu 04-Jun-26 17:49:44

And then what , Boz?

Maremia Thu 04-Jun-26 17:59:04

And then we get a PM with very little experience of doing the 'day job' if and when he bothers to attend.
No thanks

LemonJam Thu 04-Jun-26 18:23:10

surfsup

In response to posters referencing the pathologists report that Henry’s wouldn’t have survived such a stab wound regardless of any intervention.

^Could Henry Nowak have survived? Dr. Krzysztof Magier
@DrMagier^
^, a pediatrician and former honorary consul of the Republic of Poland in Cowes, analyzed footage from a police body camera showing Henry Nowak's death. Dr. Magier heads the pediatric intensive care unit, with experience in combat medicine training and a specialized course in treating severe injuries (including gunshot and stab wounds). He disagrees with the pathologist's and judge's opinion that Henry Nowak had no chance of survival and that handcuffing him essentially changed nothing. On the contrary—there is a high likelihood that the police intervention contributed to his death. He analyzed the autopsy report, which points to damage to the subclavian vein as the main source of bleeding, and explains where the problem lies. In a healthy person, venous bleeding occurs under low pressure and often self-limits thanks to the naturally forming clot, while simply approximating the wound edges and compressing the surrounding tissues closes the vein enough to slow or even stop the bleeding. The body camera footage shows that when police arrived on the scene (likely 5-10 minutes after the injury), Henry was conscious enough to speak quite loudly. He was therefore not yet in a terminal state. After his arms were twisted behind his back and handcuffed, the vein was most likely stretched, the clot torn, and bleeding dramatically intensified. Within just about three minutes, he lost consciousness and died. People with suspected internal injuries should never be moved or yanked abruptly—such actions can destroy the natural clot and lead to massive internal hemorrhage. Instead of immediately calling a medical rescue team and handing the patient over to paramedics, the police handcuffed him. If paramedics had arrived first on the scene, Henry’s chances of survival would have been much higher. "50%"—writes Dr. Magier. Paramedics could have quickly started an IV, administered fluids to increase circulating blood volume, and tranexamic acid to stabilize the clot, and if needed, performed needle decompression (inserting a large, long needle into the lung), because the issue wasn’t so much lack of lung function, but compression of the blood-filled lung on the heart and mediastinum, which blocks circulation. Worse still, the incident took place just a few minutes' drive by car (2–3 minutes by ambulance with sirens) from Southampton University Hospital—a regional Major Trauma Centre equipped with a full team of specialists, procedures, and equipment. "I am convinced that if Henry had arrived there alive, the doctors would not have let him die"—writes Dr. Magier. In summary: the aggressive police intervention, instead of saving a life, led to death through improper handling of a severely injured person, even though world-class care was just minutes away. "I fear the Judge and pathologist were too lenient toward the police"—writes Dr. Magier.^

Thanks for outlining an interesting hypothesis from this paediatrician, Dr Magier. I doubt that Dr Magier has had his opinions audited and independently checked by a qualified forensic pathologist.

Dr Magier is not a qualified pathologist or a HORFP. He is not party to the full circumstances and neither did he examine or Henry's body. With all due respect, I question his judgement sharing his conjecture with GB news and on his X account.

A hands on, physical, invasive examination and internal dissection is critical to determine the cause of death and complete a pathologist report. It is particularly essential in homicides or trauma. The pathologist (qualified and experienced) who did complete the post mortem to the standard required said that no medical treatment would have permitted access to the bleeding vein

UK homicide pathology reports are heavily scrutinised and strictly checked. Because the findings directly inform murder investigations and criminal trials, the system requires multiple layers of review, verification and independent challenge to ensure accuracy and fairness

There is also a Critical Conclusions Check that is reports written by Home Office Registered Forensic Pathologists (HORFP) in England and Wales are subject to a second review by an independent pathology colleague This colleague must formally verify the pathologists conclusions.

The legal team representing the defence typically also has the right to instruct an independent pathologist to conduct a post mortem in addition.

The HORFP pathologist's report is an official witness statement intended for the CPS and the courts. The pathologist may be called to undergo rigorous cross examination by defence and prosecution barristers, who will challenge the medical evidence, timings and injury interpretations

The Forensic Science Regulator and the Home Office Pathology Delivery board audit pathology practices to ensure clinical and ethical standards are upheld.

Further, there is yet to be the Inquest Jury. This jury will consider whether "any act or omission by police officers" or "delay in treatment caused or contributed to the death of Henry Nowak.

The Hampshire coroner said the full circumstances surrounding the death had not been fully scrutinised. A full inquest with a jury would be held on 20 September 2027, although he hoped the date might be brought forward. The coroner also said that Henry's family can fully participate.

LemonJam Thu 04-Jun-26 18:30:48

Not surprisingly Dr Magier's comments on GB news and X have attracted much approbation. He posted this at 3.55pm today on X - plus @KayBurley plus @britishpoles plus @Telegraph:

"I can see my opinion on severity of Henry Novak (sic) chest wound and his chances of survival caused a lot of emotion with people assuming that I had some knowledge of autopsy report or any other "insider knowledge". I was referring to "Sentencing remarks by HIS HONOUR JUDGE WILLIAM MOUSLEY K.C. and my comments were triggered by the quote in this document" he then sets out an exert from the sentencing remarks and ends his post.

Personally I would place low confidence in Dr Magier's none expert, none qualified opinion.

LemonJam Thu 04-Jun-26 18:42:10

surfsup- you posted Dr Magier, "analyzed the autopsy report...."

Are you sure that is factually correct? How on earth do you imagine he was he able to get access?

LemonJam Thu 04-Jun-26 18:50:13

I can't speak for anyone else- but I feel it would be better to tone down all the speculation and just wait for the IOPC report and the Inquest Jury decision- a process in which the family will be involved.

Better for Henry's family, in line with their wishes- and better for the safety of people in Southampton.

Oreo Thu 04-Jun-26 19:10:14

Maremia

And then we get a PM with very little experience of doing the 'day job' if and when he bothers to attend.
No thanks

Keir Starmer had plenty of political experience ( albeit not in the hot chair) and then look at his woeful performance once that he was in it!

Ilovecheese Thu 04-Jun-26 19:12:36

Boz

MayBee70

Oreo

Meandrogrog

Basgetti

Ilovecheese

I wonder can I ask Meandrogrog, what you think are the main problems this country has, and what you would like Nigel Farage to do, should he come to power?

Second this question. It’s all very well saying Reform is the UK’s only chance, but you need to spell out exactly why.

I wrote out a long post earlier!

Actually no poster need to spell anything out for the benefit of another poster.
I think at this point many people are saying to themselves ‘could Reform be any worse than this particular Labour government’.
The only thing that could save Labour now is if Andy Burnham wins the Makerfield by-election and then wins the PM position and then electrifies the Party by showing vision and passion.

So what vision do Reform have apart from xenophobia and racism?

No vision needed, just the tools to beat Labour.

There can be problems with the "just beat the other lot" approach though. I think Starmer discovered this when his
party won the last election.
His focus was entirely on beating the Conservatives ( with a side dish of neutering his left wing m.p. and membership) . Now that he has won, his critics are asking what was his vision for the country? Did he have a plan?
Don't Reform voters want to know what the plans are?

Oreo Thu 04-Jun-26 19:23:00

LemonJam

I can't speak for anyone else- but I feel it would be better to tone down all the speculation and just wait for the IOPC report and the Inquest Jury decision- a process in which the family will be involved.

Better for Henry's family, in line with their wishes- and better for the safety of people in Southampton.

I have some sympathy for your point of view, but I think this case has highlighted in all its tragedy the mistakes made by police when political ideology takes over common sense policing.