Henry Nowak…….an absolute tragedy.

I hear your POV Oreo but surfsup posted this: I fear the Judge and pathologist were too lenient toward the police—writes Dr. Magier.

Such highly speculative opinion undermined by independent qualified forensic pathologists, audited and scrutinised and tested by Crown Court cross examination be very triggering for some- in a bad way.

There has been a request for the inquest to be brought forward, which might provide more accurate information.

I'm amazed that anyone wants to be a policeman these days. In most jobs you make a mistake, learn from it and become better at what you do. In policing, if you make a dreadful mistake you get publicly derided and there are always people wanting to make political capital out of it. I don't think there's "two tier policing". I think in the past there has been a great deal of racism and misogyny in the police force. I speak from experience as I was married to a policeman for 13 years and I saw it at close hand. Thankfully, most new recruits, if they represent the sort of younger people I know, are neither racist nor misogynistic but they make mistakes and clearly pay a very high price for that. The murder of Henry Nowak is a dreadful thing, his treatment was totally inappropriate and I'm sure everyone involved on that night wishes they had behaved differently. I think there are lessons to be learned BUT to make the connection that Farage did and say what Farage said is, IMO, unforgivable because it was divisive and I don't want a divisive politician making the laws in the country I belong to and live in.

Well said, foxie.

foxie48 hear, hear👏👏👏

foxie48 fully agree.

Good post foxie

Oreo, that is your opinion of Starmer. Happens I don't agree, and that is fair enough. Each entitled to express how we feel,
but
at least Starmer turns up,
at least he stopped us from joining in Trump's illegal war,
and doesn't take millions of pounds from foreigners.

foxie 👏 👏 👏

LemonJam

I hear your POV Oreo but surfsup posted this: I fear the Judge and pathologist were too lenient toward the police—writes Dr. Magier.

Such highly speculative opinion undermined by independent qualified forensic pathologists, audited and scrutinised and tested by Crown Court cross examination be very triggering for some- in a bad way.

This is why the police have asked for people to stop speculating as it can prejudice the case.
Saying that those police involved should lose their jobs even before an enquiry is not helpful.

Well yes but we have 10 years of people describing the police as institutionally racist, sexist etc, I am not sure how particularly helpful that has been. I am sure I myself will have talked about it in the past. There was considerable commenting ( unfavourably) on here about the way in which the police recently responded to an anti semitic attack. Online analysis of police behaviour isn't anything new.

There have been multiple threads on GN highlighting the downfalls of the police, in particular the Met, just saying…

If the police involved in this are still on the beat, I’d be concerned if they hadn’t discussed where it all went wrong so it wouldn’t happen again. I thought the police officers were in hiding?

I think those two police officers have received death threats so I doubt they will be out on the beat. Probably desk bound I would think.

Foxie 👍

Foxie48 ... agree.

I think that police recruits now have the issue of racism and the need to be even handed stressed so firmly in their training that it has become a huge consideration in every situation they are presented with. They are falling over themselves to make sure they do not behave in a racist fashion.
Clearly this is a good thing and a necessary antidote to some of the appalling practices that have gone before. It may be however that in this particular case it blinded them to what was really going on.
I have a great deal of sympathy with police trying to make on the spot assessments when walking into an unknown situation.
But clearly something went badly wrong on this occasion. I am particularly disturbed by some of the things that one officer is reported to have said to the victim, e.g. "I don't think so mate."
This unfortunate and dreadful occurrence needs dealing with firmly but thoughtfully and the old "lessons will be learned" mantra brought into play via a proper investigation. What it does not need is that vacuous self-serving moral-free zone Farage wading in with comments that incite discord and violence and are potentially prosecutable.

foxie48

I'm amazed that anyone wants to be a policeman these days. In most jobs you make a mistake, learn from it and become better at what you do. In policing, if you make a dreadful mistake you get publicly derided and there are always people wanting to make political capital out of it. I don't think there's "two tier policing". I think in the past there has been a great deal of racism and misogyny in the police force. I speak from experience as I was married to a policeman for 13 years and I saw it at close hand. Thankfully, most new recruits, if they represent the sort of younger people I know, are neither racist nor misogynistic but they make mistakes and clearly pay a very high price for that. The murder of Henry Nowak is a dreadful thing, his treatment was totally inappropriate and I'm sure everyone involved on that night wishes they had behaved differently. I think there are lessons to be learned BUT to make the connection that Farage did and say what Farage said is, IMO, unforgivable because it was divisive and I don't want a divisive politician making the laws in the country I belong to and live in.

Thank you and entirely agree.

Maremia

Oreo, that is your opinion of Starmer. Happens I don't agree, and that is fair enough. Each entitled to express how we feel,
but
at least Starmer turns up,
at least he stopped us from joining in Trump's illegal war,
and doesn't take millions of pounds from foreigners.

It would help if you had quoted my post.
Was it the one where I hoped that Andy Burnham would inject some vision and passion into any future PM ship or the one where I say that Starmer has given an all round woeful performance? In any case my remarks have nothing to do with either Farage or Reform.

Without speculation, at least on gransnet, (assuming we are representative of the rest of the uk)
those who have questioned the handling of this case would have been immediately silenced as vile racists, and would have not dared to go "against the grain".
We would be almost forced to accept that the police attended a chaotic scene, were brand new recruits, (debatable) that they did not ignore Henry's plight, that there was nothing to suggest that he may have been in serious trouble, physically, that only Tommy Robinson and Farage have spoken out about the issues, and that the whole incident was of no more import than any other murders.

Luckygirl3

Foxie48 ... agree.

I think that police recruits now have the issue of racism and the need to be even handed stressed so firmly in their training that it has become a huge consideration in every situation they are presented with. They are falling over themselves to make sure they do not behave in a racist fashion.
Clearly this is a good thing and a necessary antidote to some of the appalling practices that have gone before. It may be however that in this particular case it blinded them to what was really going on.
I have a great deal of sympathy with police trying to make on the spot assessments when walking into an unknown situation.
But clearly something went badly wrong on this occasion. I am particularly disturbed by some of the things that one officer is reported to have said to the victim, e.g. "I don't think so mate."
This unfortunate and dreadful occurrence needs dealing with firmly but thoughtfully and the old "lessons will be learned" mantra brought into play via a proper investigation. What it does not need is that vacuous self-serving moral-free zone Farage wading in with comments that incite discord and violence and are potentially prosecutable.

Good comments Luckygirl3

LemonJam

I can't speak for anyone else- but I feel it would be better to tone down all the speculation and just wait for the IOPC report and the Inquest Jury decision- a process in which the family will be involved.

Better for Henry's family, in line with their wishes- and better for the safety of people in Southampton.

I completely agree.

There’s one person to blame for this completely out of control murder.

It’s not the police, who handled this badly and made errors, but who were acting on what they felt was accurate intel from the brother and the perpetrator, it’s not the victim, it’s not Sikhs in general and it’s certainly not the PM.

Anyone, either here or on any other media site, who is attempting to use this horrific and tragic murder to further express their utter contempt towards our police and our PM, or to speculate on whether Henry could/should have been saved if the police had acted differently should 1) feel utter shame, 2) wait for the full results of the inquiry and autopsy and 3) take a leaf out of Henry’s family’s book and take a calm step back and behave with the same respect for Henry as they are!

I agree Cossy. It seems that the contempt of the police overrides the brutal murder of Henry Nowak.

I don't hold "the police' in contempt, any more than I do sikhs.
I have no intention whatsosever to take to the streets and protest, let alone riot.

I won't pretend to think that I've lost the ability to even question what the hell went on, though.

It seems that the contempt of the police overrides the brutal murder of Henry Nowak yes it does AGA .

Great post Cossy.

AGAA4

I agree Cossy. It seems that the contempt of the police overrides the brutal murder of Henry Nowak.

I'm not sure I would go that far. However, what it does show, yet again, is that there are groups of people who will pounce on any incident to "prove" their case. OK, so the police isn't perfect and there have plenty of examples of that, but I still believe that the British police is in the main honest and does its best. It's a lot less corrupt that some other police forces. Nevertheless, incidents of mistakes (and a huge mistake was made) don't prove that the whole organisation is bad.

The groups of people who would like to prove that the police is corrupt are adept at publicising their cause. They must have certain journalists and broadcasters on speed dial and in no time at all allegations and myths are half way round the world, with inaccuracies and embellishments to the original story.

I agree with you that Henry Nowak seems to have been forgotten, just as other victims have been forgotten before him.