Andy Burnham now officially Leader of Labour Party.

Whitewavemark2

allsorts just to calm your fears a bit.

The unions have little or no power now, so the chaos of the 70s certainly won’t be repeated.

The ID scheme had already been watered down from its original plan, and it was thought that it would only now be voluntary - so its point was no longer there really.

Burnham will be subject to the same tax laws as the rest of us (unless you are Farage of course) so anything he introduces regarding tax wealth will affect him if he is wealthy enough - which I doubt tbh.

I believe digital ID is being scrapped. 👍🏻

I agree with Galaxy

From a regional Mayor to PM in a matter of weeks, underhand and devious, planned behind the scenes for how long?

Galaxy

Nefarious isn't the right word. I think undignified and manipulative possibly might work. I have been clear on my view of Starmer ( and I originally supported him) but I am not going to pretend I think what happened was ok. I too understand the rules of the labour party.

I think posters should make it clear if they are criticising what went on behind the scenes ( as you are) or if they think the actual rules were broken. I think for some it’s the latter.

GrannyGravy13

I agree with Galaxy

From a regional Mayor to PM in a matter of weeks, underhand and devious, planned behind the scenes for how long?

So what? There are many examples of devious and underhand behaviour in politics across the board. Purely objectively he and his team played a blinder and demonstrated skills and abilities that should serve them well. A drawn out campaign over the summer would have served no one imo

It depends if you think 'playing a blinder' means forcing a by election, I don't, and that applies to all political parties.

So what?

I await your response when the Conservatives change PM mid term…

Galaxy

It depends if you think 'playing a blinder' means forcing a by election, I don't, and that applies to all political parties.

Exactly 👏👏👏

I feel sorry for the MP coerced into standing down.

GrannyGravy13

^So what?^

I await your response when the Conservatives change PM mid term…

I don’t understand your point. My point is that as long as any party follows its rules for changing leader whether in power or not, that’s all that matters I have never believed that a change of PM should mean a GE.

And what makes you think the MP was coerced?

To be clear, I accept that no LP rules have been broken.

However, for me (as a LP member) the entire process, which has been plotted for over a year, leaves a very nasty taste. It makes the LP look underhand and devious.

I no longer trust my own constituency Labour MP, who has apparently been part of the shenanigans, and neither do I trust the PLP.

I thought the LP was better than this but, apparently, they’re just like all the others … something I never thought I would say

Lizzie - I can really appreciate how you feel about this ( I left the LP decades ago after feeling betrayed by a ( very different) issue. It’s easy for me to accept the means justifying the ends as I’m not invested in the same way as you are.

LizzieDrip you have described my thoughts and feelings on this.
👍🏻

Thank you Tuliptree.

Betrayed is a good word to describe how I currently feel.

I also feel extreme cognitive dissonance (which is uncomfortable) because I really dislike what the LP has done but, at the same time, I want the LP to succeed in government.

Ahhh🙈

GrannyGravy13

^So what?^

I await your response when the Conservatives change PM mid term…

But they did that more than once the last time they were in power.

I have no way of knowing whether anyone was coerced or manipulated - if anyone has evidence of that, please share as it would be interesting to know.

I do feel sorry tor KS, as I don’t share the view that he was ineffectual or ‘hated’, and I think he had a lot more he wanted to do; but given the way the media had so many people repeating their propaganda I think he had to step down to make way for someone who might be better at presentation.

It’s interesting that a lot of Starmer’s critics (including those who claimed to be unbiased or even supportive to him at first) have now turned against the man who is (as I see it) trying to rescue the fairness platform on which Starmer stood.

Doodledog I know the Conservatives changed leaders during their tenure.

I also recall the vitriol on threads directed towards them for doing so.

Mind you, all usurpers were elected MPs, they didn’t persuade a newly elected MP, in a safe Labour seat to resign and therefore create a by-election…

Just as people’s objections made no difference when it was the Tories doing it, it will make no difference when Tories complain now that Labour are doing it, and all the whataboutery in the world won’t change that.

Again, where is the evidence of coercion? And why are ‘persuade’ and ‘create’ in italics? Are you suggesting the words you are using are the wrong ones? Why not just say what you mean?

I think comparing and contrasting the various ways that parties bring about a change in their leadership is really the political equivalent of discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. That’s why my position is just based on were the rules followed not about the spirit of the rules There’s no space for that type of sentiment I wish there were but there really isn’t

None of this has been pretty, but from AB's speech on Friday and announcements since I can see why the LP - or most of it - thought a change of leader and stabilising of direction would help it through the next 2-3 years.

Tuliptree

I think comparing and contrasting the various ways that parties bring about a change in their leadership is really the political equivalent of discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. That’s why my position is just based on were the rules followed not about the spirit of the rules There’s no space for that type of sentiment I wish there were but there really isn’t

Agreed, and the spirit of the rules is the same across parties, so it’s even more of a pointless exercise. Tit for tat is never edifying.

GrannyGravy13

I agree with Galaxy

From a regional Mayor to PM in a matter of weeks, underhand and devious, planned behind the scenes for how long?

Since 2010 if various media sources are to be believed. 😄

greyfur

*I wish him well, but after such a long time of 'no such thing as society' it will prove very difficult to get people to part with their money or privilege for the benefit of those with neither*

No chance.

Those with money may well have studied hard for years in order to achieve.

It sounds like the politics of envy to me.

GrannyGravy13

I agree with Galaxy

From a regional Mayor to PM in a matter of weeks, underhand and devious, planned behind the scenes for how long?

Its said that KS was a Trojan horse.

Meandrogrog

greyfur

I wish him well, but after such a long time of 'no such thing as society' it will prove very difficult to get people to part with their money or privilege for the benefit of those with neither

No chance.

Those with money may well have studied hard for years in order to achieve.

It sounds like the politics of envy to me.

No envy from me. Not everyone is driven by the same motives, and I often wonder whether those who accuse others of 'politics of envy' are driven by that themselves. Why else would they ascribe such a peculiar (to me) way of thinking to other people?

And I studied for years in order to achieve, too, for what that's worth.

I would feel more sympathy with those who didn't like the way that the Makerfield by election was contrived if it weren't for the fact that Burnham was deliberately blocked from standing at the earlier Gorton and Denton by election. He was not the only person being devious...

I was against that as well.
I am against quite a lot of things