Andy Burnham now officially Leader of Labour Party.

Primrose53

AB was only elected in Makersfield not to run the country.

I just heard those with heat source pump heating are in for bigger bills.

He wants us to go back to the 70s and remember how awful they were.

No MP is elected to ‘run the country’. I’m bored with repeating the following - the LP elect a leader who must be an MP. If they are the largest party the leader becomes the PM. I’d love the source for heat pumps and going back to the 70s please .

Primrose53

AB was only elected in Makersfield not to run the country.

I just heard those with heat source pump heating are in for bigger bills.

He wants us to go back to the 70s and remember how awful they were.

Who elected Sunak and Truss to run the country? The Conservative party had less than 200K members when they voted for new leaders in the last government and not a single one of them had complete support from their parliamentary colleagues. Even Johnson had over 40% of his own MPs vote against him. Over 90% of Labour MPs have backed Burnham and no one else stood against him. Every constituency still has the MP that they voted for, that's democracy.

Primrose53

AB was only elected in Makersfield not to run the country.

I just heard those with heat source pump heating are in for bigger bills.

He wants us to go back to the 70s and remember how awful they were.

Starmer was only elected in Holborn and St Pancras. Both he and Burnham became leader of the LP (and hence PM) via the democratic process in the rules of that party, much as Johnson, Truss and Sunak did in their turn.

Can you give any sort of rationale for thinking that Burnham 'wants us to go back to the 70s'? I have seen nothing to lead me to that conclusion.

At least he has had some experience in running a large concern. So many politicians seem completely out of their depth when made cabinet ministers. They seem unable to cope with anything beyond their own little constituency.

The source for the heat pumps is the newspapers, turning down the heat at certain times rather than bigger bills I think.
Until Burnham actually makes new policies tho, it’s all unclear what will actually happen.

Wyllow3

The care system, the NHS, climate change, schools....prisons adequate......

Benefits, foreign aid, illegal immigrants………

Oreo

The source for the heat pumps is the newspapers, turning down the heat at certain times rather than bigger bills I think.
Until Burnham actually makes new policies tho, it’s all unclear what will actually happen.

But it’s ok for posters to make things up in the meantime

It's going to be a very interesting day we will probably see the main new cabinet announced, with Mahmoud tipped as likely chancellor which meets my approval, where will he park Milliband and who will be deputy PM

M0nica

It all reads like the way many dictatorships manage the change at the top. Burnham's rapid rise to power and the way he effortlessly rose to power without opposition suggests deep planning and complicity within the bowels of the party.

If was Keir Starmer, I would just keep well away from open windows on the higher floors of buildings. Most coups in socialist dictatorships usually end with a defenestration.

If we've reached the point where internal party politics is apparently being compared to Stalinist purges, maybe we've lost a sense of proportion.

The UK is still a democracy. Party leaders can be challenged, MPs can remove leaders, and voters ultimately decide who governs. That's a world away from the kind of dictatorship you're describing.

@Meandrogrog

You say

I would also not want to return to the poverty seen in the past but do feel that wealth is not wrong and needs to be taken off the wealthy. I thought the tax system already in place and the benefits system both seek to help those in need.

We currently have some 20% of the UK population living below the poverty line. That is one person in five.

What level would you consider to be a return to poverty seen in the past?

What makes you think the tax system seeks to help those in need when it so obviously skewed in favour of the rich?

Why should the rich pay less tax as a percentage of their income than do the poor?

"We currently have some 20% of the UK population living below the poverty line. That is one person in five."

Maisie

That is a really really really daft statement

Poverty is defined internationally as a proportion of median wage or income.
While that definition remains there is always going to be 20% below that line because as income increases so will the poverty line.

We do need to increase income of the lowest paid, trying to change the poverty line is not going to achieve anything.

defenestration

A new word had to look that up.

Starmer recognized that he had not hot the backing of his own MPs, he stood aside with dignity for someone who hopefully has.

I think he would make an excellent Foreign Secretary although at present I expect him to stand back from any office. In future who knows if Burnham and Milliband can come back why not.

Tuliptree

Oreo

The source for the heat pumps is the newspapers, turning down the heat at certain times rather than bigger bills I think.
Until Burnham actually makes new policies tho, it’s all unclear what will actually happen.

But it’s ok for posters to make things up in the meantime

Naturally anyone with a heat pump will be alarmed by what they read about it.

Depends where they read or hear about it. But why can’t the poster who first mentioned this give us the source?

David49

defenestration

A new word had to look that up.

Starmer recognized that he had not hot the backing of his own MPs, he stood aside with dignity for someone who hopefully has.

I think he would make an excellent Foreign Secretary although at present I expect him to stand back from any office. In future who knows if Burnham and Milliband can come back why not.

Am proud to say I knew what defenestration means 🤭 I heard the word in a radio play years ago, about a Russian politician who was shoved out of a high window.For some reason I didn’t forget it.

The defenestration of Prague 1618 A level history - never forgot the word.

DaisyAnneReturns

M0nica

It all reads like the way many dictatorships manage the change at the top. Burnham's rapid rise to power and the way he effortlessly rose to power without opposition suggests deep planning and complicity within the bowels of the party.

If was Keir Starmer, I would just keep well away from open windows on the higher floors of buildings. Most coups in socialist dictatorships usually end with a defenestration.

If we've reached the point where internal party politics is apparently being compared to Stalinist purges, maybe we've lost a sense of proportion.

The UK is still a democracy. Party leaders can be challenged, MPs can remove leaders, and voters ultimately decide who governs. That's a world away from the kind of dictatorship you're describing.

DAR, it extends much further down the scale of dictators than Stalin. Its origins like back in history, in the 14th century, in Prague.

It is surprising how many Russian oligarchs have met unfortunate premature ends in Russia under Putin, Eastern European politicians in the days of the USSR were also prone to kill themselves by leaping or falling out of windows.

In more recent times the word 'defenestation' has been used to describe people in power suddenly being forced out of power. Sue Grey's sudden departure from Downing Street was described as a 'defestration' in the figurative rather than literal sense

The following somewhat philosophical discussion of defenestration in history and in its figurative sense makes interesting and thoughtful reading voxmeditantis.medium.com/the-windows-edge-a-historical-journey-through-defenestration-1108d2370789

I would still recommend that Starmer stays away from windows, swimming pools and balconies for the next year.

Just looking at the latest with Keir Starmer leaving and Andy Burnham becoming PM, with the King.

Andy looks like the cat that’s swallowed the cream, the King looks a bit wary.

Oh, dear!

Tuliptree

The defenestration of Prague 1618 A level history - never forgot the word.

Like many, I suppose, I've seen the actual window

I think though, that MOnica was alluding to the tendency of Putin's opponents to throw themselves out of upper storey windows with fatal results.

The Prague defenestratees survived...

MaizieD

@Meandrogrog

You say

I would also not want to return to the poverty seen in the past but do feel that wealth is not wrong and needs to be taken off the wealthy. I thought the tax system already in place and the benefits system both seek to help those in need.

We currently have some 20% of the UK population living below the poverty line. That is one person in five.

What level would you consider to be a return to poverty seen in the past?

What makes you think the tax system seeks to help those in need when it so obviously skewed in favour of the rich?

Why should the rich pay less tax as a percentage of their income than do the poor?

The benefits system helps those in need and that is important to do so.

A lot of better off people have worked hard for their money, taken risks, worked all hours to establish a business etc.

I just think its unfair to take from them to hand to those who have not bothered.

What defines the poverty line? Is it those without the latest phone, nails, trainers etc? I genuinely see very few, if any, poverty stricken people on the streets.

OOPs, I hadn't seen MOnica's response.

I think she exaggerates, though; Starmer is perfectly safe

Maisie

That is a really really really daft statement

Quoting international definitions is meaningless, David. I doubt if those who are in absolute, rather than relative, poverty are comforted by them.

4 hrs ago
AB is the seventh PM in a decade. Yet, he berates Thatcher who was PM for 11 years and actually got elected 3 times!; yet he himself hasn’t been elected by anyone except his own clique. And the folk in Makerfield.

Calendargirl

Just looking at the latest with Keir Starmer leaving and Andy Burnham becoming PM, with the King.

Andy looks like the cat that’s swallowed the cream, the King looks a bit wary.

I think Keir had a very good working relationship with the King (along with many world leaders) and I’m pretty sure he will be sad to see him leave office.