Andy Burnham says wealthy areas must house more migrants after leafy village revolts over 1,250 asylum seekers

Which islands are these I wonder? Another easy solution to a difficult problem that’s so easy no one in UK has ever thought about it

Aveline

All you do is quote the status quo re laws. I'm trying to get over to you that changed times need changed management in whatever form it takes.
Obviously you're stuck in a groove but it's one that isn't inevitable.
We're never going to agree on this so no point in continuing. Pile on the insults at will if it helps you.

As you posted you wanted the UK government specifically to "relegislate" in order to "return asylum seekers to France" but have a problem when I`ask what UK domestic law changes you would like to see would look like in context of international laws you are in effect vetoing any such questions and accuse me of 'piling on the insults' as a result. Everyone can plainly see none of my posts contain an insult and neither have you referenced an insult.

So be it 😊

I so agree with this comment Meandrogog:

"You will never be able to make convincing points to some posters on here no matter how true they are. Its better to just give up, otherwise it just leads to you feeling frustrated as your words are twisted".

Tuliptree

Which islands are these I wonder? Another easy solution to a difficult problem that’s so easy no one in UK has ever thought about it

Who knows? 🤷‍♀️ I'm not aware that Australia has ever sent any illegal immigrants or asylum seekers to off shore islands owned by the UK...

It’s extortionately expensive, legally a minefield, and very difficult to manage the logistics. The Tories have investigated it when they were in power, Ascension Island was the option. Also remember Diego Garcia and the huge issues that caused the government of the day.

Yes it did read like that didn’t it? I get thoroughly brassed off when posters take seriously what some random foreign politician says with no real knowledge of whether what they’re positing has any value or sense at all.

Casdon

It’s extortionately expensive, legally a minefield, and very difficult to manage the logistics. The Tories have investigated it when they were in power, Ascension Island was the option. Also remember Diego Garcia and the huge issues that caused the government of the day.

Strewth Really ? I thought Rwanda was bonkers enough.

LemonJam

But why would France agree to accept asylum seekers the UK takes to France against the asylum seekers will? It is not legally obliged to do so. France has already responded to Reform UK Operation Fortress proposals with a firm no! The UK does not legislate on behalf of France and most would recognise the UK cannot tell France what to do.

So in what way would you relegislate as you suggest to be able to return boat people to France- what would this law say? What laws should the UK also decide not to comply with any more?

Which new laws could possibly allow the UK not needing adhere to existing maritime and international asylum seeker laws?

Also many AS have applied for asylum in France, as is their legal right.

The Tories tried to introduce the Rwanda scheme. The UK agreed to pay the Rwanda government upfront costs of £370 million and a further £120 million once 300 people were relocated plus £20,000 for each person relocated as part of Economic Transformation and Integration fund. In addition the Uk had to pay up to £150,874 per person relocated to cover the costs of asylum processing and integration and an additional amount of £500 for healthcare and around £10,00 per person to facilitate their discharge.

Then there would be further operational fees, staffing costs, legal costs and escorting costs. So around £228,000 per asylum seeker, aside from up front costs. It was exceptionally poor value for money and faced legal changes that the government lost.

The costs were way higher than the cost of processing an asylum seeker in the UK in addition.

.

I agree Cossy 18.31- France processes its own asylum seekers applications and has said clearly responded to Reform UK Operation Fortress proposal it will not accept UK asylum seeker applications that the UK does not want.

Aveline

Rights are not God given or immutable. We could relegislate to allow us more control of who enters the country.

It’s not our legislation to change.

It’s part of the Geneva Convention

AI

“International asylum law originated from ancient religious sanctuary traditions, evolving through 20th-century League of Nations agreements. The 1951 Refugee Convention (often called the Geneva Convention) served as its foundational modern cornerstone, legally defining refugees and establishing the vital duty of non-refoulement (not returning people to danger).“

So what is really important to remember is if a country decides to playing with laws of this nature, they risk other countries changing their own laws, laws which protect the many millions of British born people who’ve chosen to live or work in other countries rather than their birth countries.

Then there’s trade and NATO.

We’d not only be spending millions of ££££, and then more in time, we would risk relationships with all other countries who still abide by both International Asylum and Maritime Law.

Reform aside, I know of no political party who would ever wish to do this.
I recall Farage stating we’d have ££££££ more to spend on the NHS once we called out of the EU. We are still paying for this “divorce” and we lost so many benefits in both trade and grants and rights.

Remember the Dublin Agreement ?

Ideas and suggestions are all good, but some are non-starters for a myriad of different reasons.

Tuliptree

Which islands are these I wonder? Another easy solution to a difficult problem that’s so easy no one in UK has ever thought about it

Its not a difficult solution, I believe he mentioned Ascension island.

Sorry about typos! I think my posts make some kind of sense.

Rushing, dipping in and out between updates on Henry, normal household chores and preparing to get the train this time, for my visit to GOSH tomorrow. X

“Meandrogrog

Tuliptree
Which islands are these I wonder? Another easy solution to a difficult problem that’s so easy no one in UK has ever thought about it

Its not a difficult solution, I believe he mentioned Ascension island.“

I beg to differ, if it was “not a difficult solution” do you not think that either the Tories or Labour would have done it by now?

Besides which, there’s the little issue of international asylum law stating very succinctly that AS are entitled, by law, to apply for asylum in a country of their choice. If the Ascension Island were the place of choice wouldn’t they all be rocking up there?

And this has been fully costed, legal implications explored, staffing, transport, health and welfare provision, accommodation, yeah right.

Utterly perfect . Why didn’t the Tories do it years ago 😂
www.google.com/search?q=asvdndion+islsnds&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari&sei=L1h_arf7FsaBhbIPyabCmAM#lfId=ChxjMe

Tuliptree

Utterly perfect . Why didn’t the Tories do it years ago 😂
www.google.com/search?q=asvdndion+islsnds&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari&sei=L1h_arf7FsaBhbIPyabCmAM#lfId=ChxjMe

That is what I would like to know! 🤔

What could possibly go wrong? 😂😂😂😂😂

Meandrogrog

Tuliptree

Which islands are these I wonder? Another easy solution to a difficult problem that’s so easy no one in UK has ever thought about it

Its not a difficult solution, I believe he mentioned Ascension island.

The Acension island is 4000 miles from the UK - a tiny volcanic island of roughly 34 square miles It has a population under a 1,000 mostly of workers and military support staff with no indigenous population.

This tiny island currently lacks infrastructure, housing, water resources and medical facilities to support any further influx of people above its current under 1,000 population.

Transporting thousands of people and supplies across 4,000 miles to a tiny base is a massive logistical challenge, impossibly expensive and a previous UK government determined it simply was not viable.

There also would be legal hurdles as this tiny island is a British Overseas territory. So it would fall under UK laws, human rights law and ECHR law as apply to the UK. A government would have to strip the entire UK away from such human rights entitlements, UK laws and ECHR laws to avoid any legal challenges from the asylum seekers it transport to this British Oversea island.

Yes I accept you see this as a simple, ie not difficult solution Meadnrogog but that's not the conclusion reached by a previous UK government.

Maybe all this

www.google.com/search?q=could+asylum.serkprrs+be+placed+on+sdvendion+islsnds&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari#lfId=ChxjMe

LemonJam

Meandrogrog

Tuliptree

Which islands are these I wonder? Another easy solution to a difficult problem that’s so easy no one in UK has ever thought about it

Its not a difficult solution, I believe he mentioned Ascension island.

The Acension island is 4000 miles from the UK - a tiny volcanic island of roughly 34 square miles It has a population under a 1,000 mostly of workers and military support staff with no indigenous population.

This tiny island currently lacks infrastructure, housing, water resources and medical facilities to support any further influx of people above its current under 1,000 population.

Transporting thousands of people and supplies across 4,000 miles to a tiny base is a massive logistical challenge, impossibly expensive and a previous UK government determined it simply was not viable.

There also would be legal hurdles as this tiny island is a British Overseas territory. So it would fall under UK laws, human rights law and ECHR law as apply to the UK. A government would have to strip the entire UK away from such human rights entitlements, UK laws and ECHR laws to avoid any legal challenges from the asylum seekers it transport to this British Oversea island.

Yes I accept you see this as a simple, ie not difficult solution Meadnrogog but that's not the conclusion reached by a previous UK government.

But you're missing the point, LemonJam.

I don't think the antis are bothered about the cost or logistical nightmare so long as those asylum seekers are not here in the UK.

They never blinked an eyelid about Rwanda, did they?

That’s because they haven’t thought it through. They would if it pushed up taxes, which it would. 80 people currently live on Ascension Island, there is nothing there.

Would you like to see this as a costed solution in a party manifesto at the next GE FGT?

How many asylum seekers and home office staff do you think the UK could transport that the island could actually accommodate to carry out processing etc in context that the 34 square mile island currently has limited water resource, limited fuel, housing, lacks infrastructure and has no hospital for current under 1.,000 population?

Mmmmm

Doesn’t seem like a place anyone would thrive in.

“Ascension Island is a remote volcanic island in the tropical South Atlantic Ocean.

It sits roughly 960 miles (1,540 km) from the coast of Africa and 1,400 miles (2,300 km) from South America.

It is part of the British Overseas Territory of Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha.Location DetailsOcean: South Atlantic OceanCoordinates: About 8 degrees south of the equator (7°57′S, 14°22′W)

Nearest Neighbors: 800 miles (1,300 km) northwest of Saint Helena and 2,000 miles (3,200 km) north of Tristan da Cunha.”

So let’s just assume, just for one moment, that we take our AS entering the UK, at face value.

Many of these AS (remember, we are assuming that they are all genuine at this point) have made arduous and dangerous journeys from their home countries.

Countries like Syria, Afghanistan, Eritrea, Iran. Probably a combination of travelling in the back of lorries, cars, buses or walking and then cross the open borders across Europe til arriving in France, already bloody exhausted by now I would think, then they wait til a small boat becomes available and on they pop.

A lot of these people, despite popular belief, would have worked in their home country and some may have left families behind as for some the journey to France would just be too arduous.

Then they reach the UK, register for asylum, wait months and months to be processed and then, once accepted, we fly them thousands of miles to a place with only 1,000 residents, no housing and no jobs.

To just make it an even more unsuitable place for anyone,

Marine Reserve: The entire exclusive economic zone surrounding the island is a designated Marine Protected Area rich in marine life, sharks, and pelagic fish.

Mmmm For me, this is an absolute non starter and even more unsuitable than Rwanda.