History repeating itself

Are they anti Semitic ?

I think we have to be very careful here not to label AfD a neo-Nazi party. It is not a direct replica of the historical Nazi party, and there are legal implications in Germany when calling it such. It is not an underground neo-Nazi movement, but a far right populist party.

And mentioning Hitler on every occasion is not helpful, in my opinion. It's rhetoric.

Having said that, I do think that what is now happening across Europe is unsettling.

nanna8

Are they anti Semitic ?

They themselves say not, but .........

The AfD are a hard right extremist. Party - how further far right can they go?

Freedom of speech is protected in Germany, so I suspect that calling AfD a neo-Nazi party is often used, and protected in law.

The AfD will of course try to shore up their position and no doubt threaten journalist with litigation etc.

Intimidation is commonly used by such extremists.

There is a move to the right in many countries including the UK, voters dont like the changes that have been made in recent years. Unless government responds to the worries voters have they will be voted out, thats the way democracy works.

nanna8

Are they anti Semitic ?

Jewish organisations and others, in Germany say that the AfD is anti-Semitic.

It has criticised things like Holocaust Remembrance Day. The AfD consistently down plays what happened during the Hitler era, describing it as merely “a speck of bird shit over 1000 successful years of German history”

David49

There is a move to the right in many countries including the UK, voters dont like the changes that have been made in recent years. Unless government responds to the worries voters have they will be voted out, thats the way democracy works.

Just what I was about to say.

It is worth remembering that all that is being said about the AfD was said about Victor Orban in Hungary and when he was defeated in a free election he did not contest the result and left government.

David49

There is a move to the right in many countries including the UK, voters dont like the changes that have been made in recent years. Unless government responds to the worries voters have they will be voted out, thats the way democracy works.

Indeed.
Watch France closely.

The right wing rises when there are economic depressions, and fades in times of economic stability. There is always a hardcore. The situation in Germany is unique though because of their past.

We have been watching this move to the right now over the past decade or so.

It is as if the collective memory of post war europe has suddenly dimmed and dying out. Perhaps our generation is dying out - the last generation to have direct contact with those who fought for freedom and democracy.

Whitewavemark2

nanna8

Are they anti Semitic ?

Jewish organisations and others, in Germany say that the AfD is anti-Semitic.

It has criticised things like Holocaust Remembrance Day. The AfD consistently down plays what happened during the Hitler era, describing it as merely “a speck of bird shit over 1000 successful years of German history”

Again, you have to be careful, just one member of the party saying such a deplorable remark might not be representative of an entire party. There's a difference. I think he has stepped down now from any leadership role anyway.

MartavTaurus

Whitewavemark2

nanna8

Are they anti Semitic ?

Jewish organisations and others, in Germany say that the AfD is anti-Semitic.

It has criticised things like Holocaust Remembrance Day. The AfD consistently down plays what happened during the Hitler era, describing it as merely “a speck of bird shit over 1000 successful years of German history”

Again, you have to be careful, just one member of the party saying such a deplorable remark might not be representative of an entire party. There's a difference. I think he has stepped down now from any leadership role anyway.

Please try not to make excuses. We see this in the U.K. with reform, and yet we know that the whole party is tainted with racism and corruption.

I have no doubt the same is true of AfD.

They are considered to be anti-Semitic in Germany - full stop.

Remember that Reform have said that if they get elected they will declare a state of emergency and keep parliament open six days a week till they get all their legislation though. That scared me when I heard Farage say it.

I'm making no excuses, just treading carefully, due to my heritage. I would argue that anti-Israel sentiment from the political left could present a greater immediate threat to Jews.

Anyway, interesting discussion, but I have to do a first day back-to-school run now.

A threat to any minority, race or religious freedom is a threat from wherever it emanates.

But this is different because Germany’s recent history is so profoundly dreadful, carried out by the type of ideology they have now voted for in a state in Germany.

And did anyone listen to Bravermans plans for education including teaching children about how great the British Empire was and asking parents to report schools that don’t fly the union flag and other stuff like that.

France.
Direct action here.
It is not just about economics, it is a failure of the other parties to listen to concerns. There have been a number of commentators ( some who were on the left) saying very clearly where this would end up.

Whitewavemark2

A threat to any minority, race or religious freedom is a threat from wherever it emanates.

But this is different because Germany’s recent history is so profoundly dreadful, carried out by the type of ideology they have now voted for in a state in Germany.

I think you have to look a bit deeper though, at the history of that particular area of Germany. It would be far more shocking if a state in Western Germany had voted that way - completely different politics, obviously, but this is more akin to Wales or Scotland voting differently to England.

The AFD is a neo Nazi party and to pretend it is not is not only incorrect it is,
IMO, dangerous. Calling a frog a fish doesn't stop it hopping around out of water.
The Nazis first blamed the Jews for Germany's problems and once in power turned on gypsies, homosexuals, the disabled and then anyone who didn't do as they were told or they thought were genetically "impure".

MayBee70

Remember that Reform have said that if they get elected they will declare a state of emergency and keep parliament open six days a week till they get all their legislation though. That scared me when I heard Farage say it.

It’s incredibly scary!

The AFD want remigration. That means getting rid of people who they feel don't belong. Sounds familiar.

For now they only have 39 seats and need 42 for a majority.

A 93 year old Jewish survivor of the Holocaust says she is terrified of the AFD.

Farage uses the Trump play book to write his manifesto. I don't want to live in the US, nor do I want to live in Farage's vision for the UK, should he ever get into power..

Vintagewhine

The AFD is a neo Nazi party and to pretend it is not is not only incorrect it is,
IMO, dangerous. Calling a frog a fish doesn't stop it hopping around out of water.
The Nazis first blamed the Jews for Germany's problems and once in power turned on gypsies, homosexuals, the disabled and then anyone who didn't do as they were told or they thought were genetically "impure".

Indeed!

I have a personal feeling about Reform, it doesn’t matter one fig to me that some of you support them and will disagree, that is your right, as it is mine to think that once the “small boat” migrants situation is resolved (by whatever means and/or political party), another minority group will be targeted.

In fact Reform appear to have earmarked their next “mark”, those on benefits, or in fact, two marks, as I’ve heard more than once migrants with indefinite leave may be “cancelled”.

Then will come the next group, who might that be?

Pensioners? Disabled people (though they may have been “dealt with” under the “benefits” banner), LGBT community? (Absolutely undoubtably), same sex couples? Finally, when it comes right down to the bone, women.

It scares me, it angers me.

Add to this the two groups of “protesters”, at Dover and Portsmouth, which I’d refer to not as “protesters”, but as “mobs”.

If this doesn’t remind people of Nazi Germany, I suggest very strongly, you look again.

Reform and Restore are not your “friends” or “allies”, and this has nothing to do with my own political alliances or preferences, it has everthing to do with humanity.

Casdon

Whitewavemark2

A threat to any minority, race or religious freedom is a threat from wherever it emanates.

But this is different because Germany’s recent history is so profoundly dreadful, carried out by the type of ideology they have now voted for in a state in Germany.

I think you have to look a bit deeper though, at the history of that particular area of Germany. It would be far more shocking if a state in Western Germany had voted that way - completely different politics, obviously, but this is more akin to Wales or Scotland voting differently to England.

Yes I agree, and the legacy left by the Russians have no doubt affected East Germans outlook, but history does seem to be repeating itself, and don’t forget that it started in one state. What happens next needs careful watching.