History repeating itself

LemonJam

Cossy

Aveline

You completely miss my point. Did Farage deliberately recruit all these young men pouring into the south of England? No. All he and others can do is react.

I have not missed your point, in fact I believe you’ve missed mine and others point.

Let’s just respectfully agree to disagree on this topic as I fear we will never truly appreciate each others points.

Farage didn't "recruit asylum seekers" neither did AB, Kemi Badenoch, neither did any other political leaders of countries around the world who also experience asylum seeker arrivals- a strange suggestion.

Angela Merkel welcomed more than one million into Germany

Aveline

You completely miss my point. Did Farage deliberately recruit all these young men pouring into the south of England? No. All he and others can do is react.

Did Farage deliberately recruit all these young men pouring into the south of England?

No. Obviously.

All he and others can do is react.

Yes. And that's the point - which is - how he reacts.

I'm not going to make this a 'TLDR' missive - but look for yourself and see who and what Farage represents. Forget far-Right/Nazi labels, etc - research his core economic principles.

He might align himself as a champion of the working-class, but his underlying economic ideology is free-market fundamentalism, deregulation, and shrinking the State. He might be a bit of a hybrid, nevertheless, his version of "Trussonomics" does not or would not benefit anyone who is on a wage which causes them to watch the pennies, nor pensioners who need to avail themselves of State health and social services. When the 'market' decides, the devil takes the hindmost.

'The boats' are a problem. But they are not the problem. Corporate extraction is the problem. He's in favour of that...

Syracute

Just to put a reality check on this thread this is the percentage that did not vote for the AFD scontent-cdg4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.99422-6/798094101_1123542440000432_140135038530640945_n.png?stp=dst-jpg_tt6&cstp=mx1080x1350&ctp=s1080x1350&_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_aid=0&_nc_ohc=3nQSjTYAVq8Q7kNvwGi6PK-&_nc_oc=Adrfe7uG4d29ZMclL7vhREbGGvRRmkHqe4FLhGxvYbYjiTMnkuk9UHAq-56tF76zDI9d-ee2lzyaYAxW40Xt0t4Q&_nc_zt=14&_nc_ht=scontent-cdg4-1.xx&_nc_gid=Rcr1Pi_80KBJMoVYBhtAyg&_nc_ss=7b2a8&oh
=00_AQJ9wyq3uVe63Lkq8w1lkj4n_DTEzWYatS-og23G_w8YFw&oe=6AA4CFEF

That is a really bad URL Syracute which doesn't work. Can you get a better one or tell us what it is supposed to link us to?

I think you are absolutely correct, Dickens but people are very resistant to economic reality on here...

MaizieD

I think you are absolutely correct, Dickens but people are very resistant to economic reality on here...

Sorry, I meant to quote this from *Dicken's post:

Corporate extraction is the problem. He's in favour of that...

sundowngirl 19.36 - Angela Merkel did not recruit asylum seekers your earlier suggestion.

Many of us are indeed aware that AM welcomed refugees and migrants who arrived in Germany primarily fleeing war in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan who arrived during the 2015-2026 European migrant crisis. Her government's humanitarian choice when it temporary suspended the standard EU rules at the time.

I agree Dickens 19.47- Farage reacts as do other parties to asylum seeker arrivals.

Despite Farage Reform UK anti immigrant and anti asylum seeker rhetoric his party only secured a handful of MPs at the last election. Not even nearly close to being sufficient to win the GE or be the shadow government- thats democracy whether the Portsmouth protesters like it or not.

The country will need to wait till the next GE for a chance to vote for any alternative party to win power. Meanwhile the LP has reacted; it has reduced small boat crossing numbers by half, hugely reduced the process time for AS applications, addressed the backlog of applications it inherited and increased deportations. Evidence of a more successful reaction to asylum seekers compared to the previous Conservative Government.

That is a really bad URL Syracute which doesn't work. Can you get a better one or tell us what it is supposed to link us to?

... I had the same message, literally, "bad URL".

Syracute - did you miss part of the address - it could even be a one-letter deficit!? Or, maybe it no longer exists?

David49

There is a move to the right in many countries including the UK, voters dont like the changes that have been made in recent years. Unless government responds to the worries voters have they will be voted out, thats the way democracy works.

It didn't work last time there was an extreme far right party in Germany.
Nazis were the largest party in a coalition & went from that to absolute power (via intimidation & assasinations) without an election.
I don't think democracy is safe with extremist parties whatever their USP.

Post war Germany set up what they hoped would be a firewall to ensure that a far right political party never got into power again. So far it has held, but it is definitely under severe pressure now.

All other political parties agreed to never cooperate with any far right entity - although the far left is wavering, not least because of the AfDs friendliness towards Russia, which in turn gives Germany and Europe a severe headache when it comes to intelligence. No one will want to share intelligence with a country whose far right party who is friendly with Russia.

Putin can’t believe his luck, at least the Nazis unwaveringly hated the communists, not so the latest manifestation.

This is true, and it was much needed and successful at the time. But like anything else that was set up 80+ years ago, die Brandmauer, the Firewall, is no longer fit for purpose. We all know that the same Germany does not exist today, neither geographically nor politically. The Brandmauer policy can now be seen to be backfiring, and the wall shows cracks and is in danger of crumbling.

Yes definitely.

Germans are arguing that it is indeed anti-democratic. They have a point, but the conundrum of a far right Russian friendly political party remains.

I think that it appears that the Merkel years of power went towards people turning to an alternative and unfortunately it was always going to be a party of the right if not far right.

I wonder if some of the voters in that election were actually ethnic Russians whose families had moved there during Soviet control of the area?
Would that account for the pro Putin element?
Thinking of the situation in Crimea.

Maybe. I'm not very knowledgeable about the Russian aspect, but I know there's historically a few million Russlanddeutschen in Germany and that when the Berlin Wall collapsed they migrated into West Germany. I think they go way back generations though.

It's just occurred to me that if the AfD are against immigration, why do they actively court the votes of Russian immigrants in Germany?

When the wall came down and East Germany because part of Germany there was huge celebrations. Unfortunately many of the former East Germans feel that they have not done as well as they should. They harbour pro Russian sympathies and Russian propaganda directed towards Germany is stirring the pot whilst scapegoating immigration. If it sounds familiar it's because that's what is happening across Europe. Russia wants to destroy the European community so it can pick off individual countries and rebuild the Soviet Union.

David49

There is a move to the right in many countries including the UK, voters dont like the changes that have been made in recent years. Unless government responds to the worries voters have they will be voted out, thats the way democracy works.

Voters of very little knowledge will always be susceptible to people offering unicorns and pixie dust. How can these folks still hope these people have their interests at heart?

According to Wiki, Russians are the 3rd largest migrant group in Germany.
In response to MT's query, why are they 'acceptable'
Mmmmmm...?

DaisyAnneReturns

David49

There is a move to the right in many countries including the UK, voters dont like the changes that have been made in recent years. Unless government responds to the worries voters have they will be voted out, thats the way democracy works.

Voters of very little knowledge will always be susceptible to people offering unicorns and pixie dust. How can these folks still hope these people have their interests at heart?

I can’t believe this. Talk about intellectual snobbery. I don’t know of anyone that would fit this description, though I am obviously leading a very sheltered life. Shame.

Sadly DAR I don't think Reform voters realise that even if the small boats stopped arriving completely, their lives would not change one bit. The societal change that has left many communities hollowed out has happened over many decades and can't be changed overnight. If the migrants stop coming and people's lives don't change for the better quickly, what group will be the next target for scapegoating? Reform has already set it's sights on other disadvantages groups and I think many may live in those areas of the country that are currently the strongest supporters of Reform. Do Reform voters read the manifesto? tbh I doubt many voters actually know what they are voting for unless they are genuinely interested in politics whether they are Reform voters or not, sadly that means they are easily swayed by social media and Reform has the most money (most having come by way of foreign donors) to spend on campaigns.

foxie48

Sadly DAR I don't think Reform voters realise that even if the small boats stopped arriving completely, their lives would not change one bit. The societal change that has left many communities hollowed out has happened over many decades and can't be changed overnight. If the migrants stop coming and people's lives don't change for the better quickly, what group will be the next target for scapegoating? Reform has already set it's sights on other disadvantages groups and I think many may live in those areas of the country that are currently the strongest supporters of Reform. Do Reform voters read the manifesto? tbh I doubt many voters actually know what they are voting for unless they are genuinely interested in politics whether they are Reform voters or not, sadly that means they are easily swayed by social media and Reform has the most money (most having come by way of foreign donors) to spend on campaigns.

I agree totally.
And yes once it is apparent that Reform are all trousers and no substance when it comes to illegal immigration and the voters lives don’t improve it will be the unemployed and disabled who will be the next targets. Soft targets are Refifm’s MO. And seeing as the highest number of Reform voters live in deprived areas where there is generational unemployment and disability caused by said deprivation, it would be interesting to see how those voters would feel if this were to happen. Betrayed I imagine, which is rather sad.

This is why it is so important to ensure that donations to political parties come from known legal sources. Russia almost certainly influenced the Brexit referendum and I'm pretty sure is putting money into Reform. Russia has certainly gained influence with MPs, some in very important positions in government (need I say more?) and disharmony and civil unrest is very helpful to Putin as, in deed, are far right political parties.

MayBee70

I don’t understand how people who support political parties that have an agenda based on attacking a certain group of people don’t realise that they could be next on the list.

Perhaps they don’t think that far ahead?

MayBee70

And did anyone listen to Bravermans plans for education including teaching children about how great the British Empire was and asking parents to report schools that don’t fly the union flag and other stuff like that.

I fail to see what is wrong with that.

DaisyAnneReturns

David49

There is a move to the right in many countries including the UK, voters dont like the changes that have been made in recent years. Unless government responds to the worries voters have they will be voted out, thats the way democracy works.

Voters of very little knowledge will always be susceptible to people offering unicorns and pixie dust. How can these folks still hope these people have their interests at heart?

As opposed to those of very superior understanding. Please can you let us all know who this group who do not believe in unicorns and pixie dust should vote for please?