Preparation for war

In what scenario do you anticipate wet wipes and lentils being of use?

Flood is one of the major risks, and quite possible with the predicted El Niño effect, if dirty flood water or sewage enters the water supply. It’s not just war related. Lentils wouldn’t be much use though, unless you have water.

greyfur16

In what scenario do you anticipate wet wipes and lentils being of use?

Wetwipes would be extremely useful if water supplies were disrupted.

Before i am accused of being ridiculous, I would like to say that our local water supply has been so unreliable over last few years that I have already resorted to keeping a supply in for personal hygiene purposes for days when we get up to find that our taps are dry!

Lentils are less useful in these circumstances, though tinned, pre-cooked ones could certainly be useful if our power supply became as unreliable as the water.

fancythat

I dont think I ever came across Military Keynesianism.
That part may work.

Defence spending has nothing to do with economics you spend as much as needed to counter any threat you see. Threats change 5 yrs ago it was not foreseen that the Ukraine war would begin, The Tories ran down our defence spending because they saw no threat the rest of Europe did the same including Russia .

Cold War stockpiles have been used up now they must be rebuilt to face new threats, if we are to do this without the US backup it's going to be very expensive.

In a war situation the government is in a totally different situation than any other. It is fighting for survival, but the build up to it and subsequent defence needs are well described in Keynesian economics and military aggregate demand.

This imo is what the current government ought to be doing as a matter of urgency, it will take nothing away from the need to sort out social care and other issues, so besetting and inherited by this government -

fancythat

I looked at him decades ago.
Didnt agree with him then either.

That has to be one of the most amusing thing I've read on this forum (News & Politics) for a long time.

Were Keynes still alive I doubt he would lose much sleep over an obscure forum gran not agreeing with him..

However, when one considers that without Keynes' economic input Britain would probably not have survived WW2 and that the Welfare state set up post WW2 and which we have all benefitted from, would not have been possible (though perhaps you don't agree with the Welfare State either) it's a pretty strange statement...

In fact, had Keynes been listened to after WW1 with his opposition to the punitive economic conditions imposed on Germany there might never have been a WW2.

Oh well....🙄

Whitewavemark2

In a war situation the government is in a totally different situation than any other. It is fighting for survival, but the build up to it and subsequent defence needs are well described in Keynesian economics and military aggregate demand.

This imo is what the current government ought to be doing as a matter of urgency, it will take nothing away from the need to sort out social care and other issues, so besetting and inherited by this government -

The military will spend as much as the polititians allow, even today we are in a passive role, we are not actively fighting anywhere. Today Russia is not capable of attacking a NATO with conventional weapons any confrontation will likely start with tit for tat incursions to test NATO resolve while they build up offensive ability.

We must match that whether we are at war or not, it's a similar situation to the lead up to WW2, we didnt spend the money on defence and were caught napping. Today we do see that threat and should spend to counter it even if it means increasing taxation or cutting other spending. If our commitment to NATO is real we and other countries should give priority to defence spending.

Defence spending has nothing to do with economic

I dont think I fully understand your sentence.

Are you saying the phrase Military Keynesianism doesnt exist?

I looked it up[not in detail] and it does seem to?[though as I said previously, I had never heard of it before, from what I can remember].

TBH david to my surprise I think we are largely in agreement over this.

I have been listening to Carlo Rovelli and how Kennedy managed the Cuban crises ( my opinion of the Kennedy’s has risen 100%). I can’t see a single politician in the world super powers with perhaps the exception of China having the intellectual capacity that Khrushchev and the Kennedy’s showed during the Cuban crises.

^Were Keynes still alive I doubt he would lose much sleep over an obscure forum gran not agreeing with him..
^

It is you that keeps bringing him up to me. Many times on this forum over a period of time.
Best I dont talk about Keynes with you/government can spend what it likes with no financial consequences from anywhere ever/your theories on the forum about him to me/ again please. Thank you.

If our commitment to NATO is real we and other countries should give priority to defence spending.

Do you still agree with NATO? As much as you did?
And Whitewavemark2 - is your committment to it as strong as it was? I am not sure from your posts that it is? Or have I got that wrong?

fancythat

^Were Keynes still alive I doubt he would lose much sleep over an obscure forum gran not agreeing with him..
^

It is you that keeps bringing him up to me. Many times on this forum over a period of time.
Best I dont talk about Keynes with you/government can spend what it likes with no financial consequences from anywhere ever/your theories on the forum about him to me/ again please. Thank you.

I bring Keynes up because he is recognised as one of the great economists of all times and because his economic insight actually works' It worked for Roosevelt's New Deal which lifted the US out of the Great Depression of the 1930s. It worked to carry Britain through WW2 and it worked to fund the inception of the Welfare State.

Best I dont talk about Keynes with you/government can spend what it likes with no financial consequences from anywhere ever/

Neither Keynes nor I ever proposed that. I will always challenge anyone who says 'we can't afford it', though because it is economically illiterate and untrue.

Well unless the current Government or the next actually start investing in infrastructure, armed forces along with jobs in local authorities and NHS (all of which keep money flowing and revenue back to the government) in my opinion the U.K. will not advance economically nor will a large proportion of its citizens.

fancythat

^If our commitment to NATO is real we and other countries should give priority to defence spending.^

Do you still agree with NATO? As much as you did?
And Whitewavemark2 - is your committment to it as strong as it was? I am not sure from your posts that it is? Or have I got that wrong?

Re NATO - absolutely because we can never defend ourselves entirely on our own. However, I think that we definitely need to increase our defence spending on non-nuclear weapons and personal, because governments have hollowed out our military to such an extent that we only at present have the capacity for a fortnights war😮. Our weakness will be exploited by an aggressor like Russia, and the USA cannot be depended on as was previously the case.

Governments in the Uk made us so weak, it is shocking.

No wonder the leaders of our armed forces were tearing their hair out so to speak.

Oldnproud
I can’t speak for lentils but you’re not wrong about wet wipes. I’ve done the trip on the French canals and rivers from Calais to Sete 4 times.
The canal authorities often turn the taps off when there’s a water shortage. After being caught out once you make sure you have a good supply for washing and washing up.

Whitewavemark2

TBH david to my surprise I think we are largely in agreement over this.

I have been listening to Carlo Rovelli and how Kennedy managed the Cuban crises ( my opinion of the Kennedy’s has risen 100%). I can’t see a single politician in the world super powers with perhaps the exception of China having the intellectual capacity that Khrushchev and the Kennedy’s showed during the Cuban crises.

Kennedy and Khrushchev

We were always fed the story that Kennedy made the Russians back down - propaganda

What really happened was, at the height of the tension Kennedy phoned Khrushchev personally and they agreed that if US removed missiles from Turkey, Russia would remove theirs from Cuba.

Although current leaderships are at a low when mutual destruction was at stake sense prevailed and the warmongers on both sides were overruled.

Thank you petra for the BBC Sounds link to the podcast ‘Radical’ interviewing prepped Mike Chappell (who apparently lives here in urban Manchester in a 3 bed townhouse with his family).

Interesting listen to be honest.

I liked near the end when he said “we are all peppers to some extent”. He asked the interviewee “do you have a box of plasters at home?”
“Yes”
“Yet you’re not bleeding right now are you? And that box would cover quite a few bleeds”.

“That’s all prepping is. Get tins of food tgat you could eat from cold - corned beef, Spam, potatoes, macaroni cheese - stuff you would actually eat in your own pantry - and just increase your stocks a bit to cover 14 days. I don’t live in a mansion. I don’t have an underground bunker. We’re talking about an un under the stairs cupboard with a few shelves. If I can do it, anyone can”.

It was a very thought provoking programme (40 minutes).
Thank you petra for the link.

David49

Whitewavemark2

TBH david to my surprise I think we are largely in agreement over this.

I have been listening to Carlo Rovelli and how Kennedy managed the Cuban crises ( my opinion of the Kennedy’s has risen 100%). I can’t see a single politician in the world super powers with perhaps the exception of China having the intellectual capacity that Khrushchev and the Kennedy’s showed during the Cuban crises.

Kennedy and Khrushchev

We were always fed the story that Kennedy made the Russians back down - propaganda

What really happened was, at the height of the tension Kennedy phoned Khrushchev personally and they agreed that if US removed missiles from Turkey, Russia would remove theirs from Cuba.

Although current leaderships are at a low when mutual destruction was at stake sense prevailed and the warmongers on both sides were overruled.

Yes, and the two things that absolutely stood out for me was that the kKennedy brothers were being advised very strongly by the military and politicians to use military power. They went against this advice entirely alone and Khrushchev, to help them save face in withdrawing from Turkey went along with the story that he had backed down in Cuba. The truth only came out years after. I always thought that Khrushchev had backed down.

You could say that the three of them Saved the world. I am in awe of their statesmanship.

NATO now seems to be fairly inept and spineless. I have been adding to my Armageddon cupboard on a monthly basis over the past year and, despite the fair amount of derision from gnetters last year, I bought my generator, which will keep freezers, a fridge and the ability to recharge mobiles and laptops going! Have torches,camping lamps, basic first aid kit, two months of dog food and the ubiquitous loo paper.

Does anyone know how long bottled water lasts? Would like to know.

IF anything catastrophic should happen I should be taking myself away to a green and pleasant land……..😇

The bottles have a use by date stamped on them dalrymple, but it’s not always easy to spot it. I think it lasts about three years usually, although I rotate mine, so the new ones go in the garage.

Mike Chapell looked well prepped to last a while to me.

Very articulate but talking nonsense.

No one has mentioned prescribed medicines? If there’s protracted chaos many of us are going to be very ill or dead. No chance of stocking those up.

EkwaNimitee

No one has mentioned prescribed medicines? If there’s protracted chaos many of us are going to be very ill or dead. No chance of stocking those up.

Good point!

That's one way of reducing the population.