Burnham - rejoin Europe in one shape or form?

Europe now is not the Europe we left.Most of Europe is in a worse state than we are including Germany.Italy Germany and soon France will vote le Penn into the Presidentcy.All moving far to the right.We should perhaps stayed in but now the world and Europe have moved on dictator signs everywhere,including USA.Boyo from Manchester is all talk.

winterwhite

I’m with Wyllow - Go, Burnham, go. No referendum. New negotiations, new deal.

What price democracy now then?
Just pull the plug on it like dirty dishwater when it suits?

Not a good look. At all.

Why the assumption that leave-voters must have been ignorant of the issues?
We had a referendum; we voted to leave. Are they going to keep having referenda until we see “sense” and give the “right” answer?

vegansrock

Bre - entry - bring it on!

YES!!

I think Burnham might need a referendum as there was one for Brexit - but we are a representative democracy and i do not think it makes sense to use referenda otherwise. Lets instead get fair votes.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

winterwhite

I’m with Wyllow - Go, Burnham, go. No referendum. New negotiations, new deal.

What price democracy now then?
Just pull the plug on it like dirty dishwater when it suits?

Not a good look. At all.

You’re absolutely right to call it dirty dishwater, FGT. Brexit has been a complete failure, it needs flushing away..

Burnham is proving to be a right pain in the posterior.

Yes please, but not rush into it. I've not got over the referendum ,let's sort this divided country out first, it has gone from bad to worse since Brexit.

Allsorts

Burnham is proving to be a right pain in the posterior.

All PMs are to parts of the population that don't like their policies or personality. Others disagree and AB does have the highest poll ratings of any of the party leaders so must be doing something right for the majority- even if its only hope at this stage.

We're still a democratic country so L government has 3 more years in government and then there will be another GE.

Ukelady1

Why the assumption that leave-voters must have been ignorant of the issues?
We had a referendum; we voted to leave. Are they going to keep having referenda until we see “sense” and give the “right” answer?

We left.

We don’t need to leave forever!

Democracy absolutely means looking at things again, reviewing situations.

It’s why we have GE every few years, or should we just have stuck with the same party who gained power in the first GE? Changing just changing PMs each time they died of old age?

Emeraldforest

Yes please, but not rush into it. I've not got over the referendum ,let's sort this divided country out first, it has gone from bad to worse since Brexit.

👍👍🙏🙏👏👏

Applegran

I think Burnham might need a referendum as there was one for Brexit - but we are a representative democracy and i do not think it makes sense to use referenda otherwise. Lets instead get fair votes.

He most certainly does not legally have to have a referendum. It’s not legally binding, it’s simply a huge opinion poll.

We have handed power across to the democratically elected government, that’s how our entire political system works.

MPs present their case, hopefully having spoken with their constituency. HoC votes, HoL ratifies and if enough agree, onto the next stages of legislation.

Bit simplistic, but that’s the process, more or less.

Then when a GE comes along we show our agreement or otherwise and vote to keep or replace the party currently holding power.

Applegran

I think Burnham might need a referendum as there was one for Brexit - but we are a representative democracy and i do not think it makes sense to use referenda otherwise. Lets instead get fair votes.

I don’t think he does, if he makes rejoining in whatever form part of the Labour manifesto for the next election. People would have a clear choice.

No to rejoining. The vote was made. If they want another vote then we need a general election, as I would like another vote on who governs

Sheian57

No to rejoining. The vote was made. If they want another vote then we need a general election, as I would like another vote on who governs

That is exactly how it will be decided I think. I hope never to see another referendum in my lifetime after the last debacle and its fallout.

I remember being on holiday with a couple from Scotland when it was the vote on Scottish independence. They were so stressed and upset by it all and were so relieved when Scotland voted to stay in the union. So I wasn’t surprised at how divisive the referendum on leaving the EU became. I don’t think the country has recovered from it and to me it isn’t the country or people I recognise from before it happened. Not meaning to be melodramatic but that, combined with the pandemic, has had a lasting affect on what will probably be the latter part of my life.

In a war situation and this seems to be looming up, countries are better under one umbrella supporting one another, which speaks for some sort of closer ties with the rest of Europe.

Some interesting comments to consider. If we were governed by businessmen and not lawyers who fill their pockets with tax payer funded legal aid to ECHR. The late Queen sold her sovereignty off to europe for £85k. Shengen zone prices first go through Germany and France who then tax on to UK. As for Shengen food... even garlic from China is grown using human excrement. Why are we even accepting canned tomatoes from China. The EU controls UK farming and fishing. Why is there so much food coming from South Africa, et al. Why is sub standard food produce being sent to UK from EU. Why can't we get, say, Norwegian fish, or decent Spanish oranges, etc. Are food mountains still being maintained in the EU. Is milk still thrown into a lake. De Gaulle refused entry to the EEC saying that this country is stronger than all the other countries combined. On another topic - not entirely unrelated - I note that Australia now has no debt. We were in that position once before Tony Bliar and the Gordon. TB resigned his office due to heart health - and yet he is still interfering in various politics. Keeps his wife in a job and off his back perhaps. Australia and New Zealand lost trade deals with the UK overnight when we were taken into the EC. I get confused over why the EEC, EC, and EU keep changing their name.

Brexit didn't stand a chance of working because the result was not what was expected or wanted by most political parties. No real effort was made to make it work. As soon as the result was announced the talk seemed to be how to rejoin.

I wish we didn’t but,unfortunately, Australia does have a large national debt . Not quite as large as some of the Western countries but pretty large. We were dumped from our trade with the UK overnight which led us to seek other outlets. Hopefully we never return to that situation though memories are short. The UK is heavily involved with our health services and private health insurance and some of our retail outlets but China seems to be our main trading partner these days.

Plunger

Brexit didn't stand a chance of working because the result was not what was expected or wanted by most political parties. No real effort was made to make it work. As soon as the result was announced the talk seemed to be how to rejoin.

What should have been done to make Brexit successful?

Whitewavemark2

Plunger

Brexit didn't stand a chance of working because the result was not what was expected or wanted by most political parties. No real effort was made to make it work. As soon as the result was announced the talk seemed to be how to rejoin.

What should have been done to make Brexit successful?

You ask an excellent question, WWmk2. One which has frequently asked, but to which there never seems to have been an answer.

It has always seemed to me that if a change to a system is being called for then those proposing the change should be able to not only outline their argument for change but also have a detailed plan for how the change would be carried out.

It was immediately obvious, once the referendum result had been announced, that there was no plan in place, Indeed, it was argued that the government which implemented the referendum should have had a fully worked out plan for how to implement the changes needed in order to implement the result. Which is absurd. Why should a government which didn't want to change the status quo have to have planned how to implement something it didn't want? It was surely the responsibility of those who wanted to change it to have The Plan?

And the responsibility of those who voted to leave the EU to have studied The Plan and be able to explain it to those who were against the idea.

As it was, those who voted to leave said 'We've told you what we want to do, i.e Leave, and just sat back and expected it to happen...

And it's no good people claiming that Brexit hasn't been done 'properly' when there was never any properly worked out plan for 'doing it properly' in the first place.

Isla71

Some interesting comments to consider. If we were governed by businessmen and not lawyers who fill their pockets with tax payer funded legal aid to ECHR. The late Queen sold her sovereignty off to europe for £85k. Shengen zone prices first go through Germany and France who then tax on to UK. As for Shengen food... even garlic from China is grown using human excrement. Why are we even accepting canned tomatoes from China. The EU controls UK farming and fishing. Why is there so much food coming from South Africa, et al. Why is sub standard food produce being sent to UK from EU. Why can't we get, say, Norwegian fish, or decent Spanish oranges, etc. Are food mountains still being maintained in the EU. Is milk still thrown into a lake. De Gaulle refused entry to the EEC saying that this country is stronger than all the other countries combined. On another topic - not entirely unrelated - I note that Australia now has no debt. We were in that position once before Tony Bliar and the Gordon. TB resigned his office due to heart health - and yet he is still interfering in various politics. Keeps his wife in a job and off his back perhaps. Australia and New Zealand lost trade deals with the UK overnight when we were taken into the EC. I get confused over why the EEC, EC, and EU keep changing their name.

Other than the DeGaulle mentioned I don’t think I’ve read a more misinformed post on GN.
Almost laughable 😂

Sheian57

No to rejoining. The vote was made. If they want another vote then we need a general election, as I would like another vote on who governs

Exactly how I feel, Sheian57

Sarnia

Sheian57

No to rejoining. The vote was made. If they want another vote then we need a general election, as I would like another vote on who governs

Exactly how I feel, Sheian57

An election is going to happen, Burnham is smart enough to know the right time I suspect. I think rejoining Europe, in whatever format is possible, is going to be a vote winner, judging by the polls, which are currently showing around 58% in favour.