Burnham - rejoin Europe in one shape or form?

The conversation is live and high profile now, I'm sure it still will be in 6 months, 12 months and ongoing.

Brexit harm has become an ever increasing momentum of concern becoming more and more obvious to the majority. There will be an eventual tipping point...

It was all about what could have happened but didnt, for me.
An EU army being top of the list. [shudder].

The EU now feels like a lumbering, wounded, slowly dying, toothless tiger, as far as I am concerned.
It was never the same after we left.

Still manages to hoover up money though.

I thought Brexit was total lunacy at the time but returning could be very difficult because I doubt the rest of Europe would be very supportive. They aren’t doing so well just now for one thing.

Depends how you look at the EU. Depends whether ou are willing to accept the evidence of harm caused. Depends whether you wish the level of harm to increase year on year.

Like any global superpower, the EU is highly powerful in some areas and has structural weaknesses in other areas. Anyone can focus on perceived and actual structural weaknesses but if at the expense of lack of focus on power and economic might the perception is weak and highly subjective, unbalanced and biased.

Despite perceived and actual weaknesses the fact remains that the EU is a global regulatory superpower. The UK since Brexit has no such superpower status. The UK has in fact reduced its status to become a 'middle power'. It has lost EU might. The UK has reduced its economic size since Brexit by between 4- 8%smaller than if it had remained in the EU. The UK goods trade volume has dropped 10-15% in volume since Brexit. Disregarding such data/evidence is seriously misguided.

The Brussels effect It is one of the world's largest consumer markets- global corporations voluntarily change their global standards to comply with with EU rules on data privacy (GDPR, environmental standards and consumer safety, e.g tech giants and Chinese manufacturers.

Economic Might the EU remains a massive trading block , accounting for a significant share of global traded GDP. It holds immense leverage in gestating international trade deals

Cohesion in crisis while slow to start, the EU has shown remarkable resilience under pressure. It successfully coordinated historic joint debt germination during Cvod pandemic and has maintained an untied front in levelling massive economic sanctions against Russia following invasion of Ukraine.

As the UK no longer has a seat at the EU table we have no voting rights and no opportunity to improve perceived and actual structural weaknesses. After Brexit it can hardly be said that the UK has no perceived and actual structural weaknesses of its own!

Still so few evidence based examples of actual benefits to the UK as a result of Brexit detailed in this thread. Begs the question why!

Still so few evidence based examples of actual benefits to the UK as a result of Brexit detailed in this thread. Begs the question why!

No one falls for that question any more.
By several years.

Look back several years for answers. Or google.
But eveyone knows that will never satisfy some people. For ever.

No one falls for it or provides examples because they have no answers to give 😂

Benefits sold before Brexit referendum- sometimes still referred to by some but with no due consideration of what net overall benefit has actually been achieved. Thats because there are no easy answers to demonstrate any net overall benefits
Brexit resulted in :

1) UK Supreme Court sovereignty i.e. the final arbiter. True, but in what way has that benefited the country- in what way has there been any overall net overall benefit over the past 10 years? International law still exists.

2) The UK no longer makes a gross annual financial contribution of around £9 billion annually. However its lost around £6- 7 million in direct payments form the EU, e.g. agricultural subsidies, regional development grants, social/community funds etc. So on paper a £2-3 million gain however UK government now needs to replicate and pay those subsidies of agriculture, regional development etc misses out. so a £3-5 million overall loss and no overall net benefit in 10 years Plus thats apart from the UK is still paying the EU divorce costs of Brexit.

3) End of free movement of people within the EU- in what way has the UK benefited from this specifically? In what wa does the UK have better control of its borders? What has it lost in return? There has been no overall net benefit in 10 years.

4) Ability to make independent free Trade policies with none EU countries across the world- loss much, much, much more trade than we have gained- 10-15% loss. There has absolutely been no overall net benefit in 10 years

5) Fisheries Control to what end or benefit? Uk fisherman feel ver let down and adversely affected by Brexit there has been no overall net benefit to the fishing industry or the price of fish for consumers in the past 10 years

6) Regulatory divergence with EU- yes in theory the UK now has freedom to set our own regulations. But if we still wish to trade with EU we have to meet EU regulations. China wishing to trade with EU is willing to match EU regulations but will not likely wish to match different UK regulations for such a small amount of trade thus there has been no overall benefit over past 10 years

The benefits proposed before the referendum paid no heed to the broader context or trade offs. The perceived benefits relate to institutional and legislative controls achieved but have to be balanced against the significant non tariff trade lost with the EU, increased customs and regulatory friction for exports and no positive/or mixed outcomes on total net migration.

I still maintained in context and consideration of trade offs, there are no overall net benefits to the UK as a result of Brexit.

fancythat I doubt you will ever be satisfied or persuaded by evidence, data, context, trade offs or reality.