Burnham - rejoin Europe in one shape or form?

Don't hold your breath, if you're asking for a list of BREXIT bonuses.
Replies given are as rare as the benefits.

Syracute
Nothing to do with me, I voted to Remain but can see plenty of things wrong about the EU tbh.
90 days is 3 months, a long time to stay in Germany to visit I would have thought.

Maremia

Don't hold your breath, if you're asking for a list of BREXIT bonuses.
Replies given are as rare as the benefits.

That’s because they’re asking the wrong people.😁

Oreo

Syracute
Nothing to do with me, I voted to Remain but can see plenty of things wrong about the EU tbh.
90 days is 3 months, a long time to stay in Germany to visit I would have thought.

It is my son and grandson….plus I have loads of friends there and I used to live there. What a judge mental comment on how I shouldn’t be bothered that 90 days is enough !!!I would like to return but now that is near impossible. I never would have moved here if I new that Brexit was going to pass.

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3

Red tape cut specifically as in all the forms needed for trading, GG13 as in customs and relevant movement of goods across borders.
This is possible to do without the red tape of being an EU member.

The only way I can see the U.K. establish free movement of goods and/or customs union with the EU is for us to accept becoming part of the Schengen Agreement/free movement of people.

Which in my opinion would be unacceptable in these days current world situation.

'Free movement' was only ever free movement of EU citizens between EU states. It was totally misrepresented by Leave campaigners and still seems to be misunderstood. It was never about allowing asylum seekers and refugees to travel freely in the EU.

It is one of the EU freedoms which I really miss.

Why cannot you move freely now? We have just come back from Crete and have been abroad three times this year, no problem with freely moving about.

Free movement for work, Mean?
Not so simple now.

Maremia

Free movement for work, Mean?
Not so simple now.

Why? What difference does that make?

Why cannot you move freely now? We have just come back from Crete and have been abroad three times this year, no problem with freely moving about.

Because passports of people from 'third countries' have to be scrutinised and date stamped to ensure that they are not exceeding the time allowed to stay in an EU country to ensure that they are not exceeding the 90 day rule or returning too soon after their 90days are up. for me it's a constant reminder of the stupid 'choice' that the UK made.

For people with family in the EU it restricts their ability to visit whenever they please and for however long they please.

For people whose work used to take them in and out of Europe it seriously restricts their ability to work there when ever they had an opportunity. I know several people whose relatives have moved permanently to an EU country because it afforded them much better opportunities to use their skills than staying in the UK.

I don't think that many Leave voters realise how much the lack of freedom of movement buggered up many UK citizens' lives, because it was of no importance to them and they don't give a monkeys about the difficulties faced by those to whom it was important.

And for what?

I asked the question this morning about the benefits that Brexit has brought the U.K.

I have been out all day and have just settled to read the replies.

Not a single post!! Not one!!

What on earth does that say about brexit and frankly those who support it?

Meandrogrog

Maremia

Free movement for work, Mean?
Not so simple now.

Why? What difference does that make?

It is astonishing that this question is asked. Assuming that the you voted for Brexit meandrogrog can you really be satisfied that you understood what you were voting to give up both for you as an individual, and the country as a whole.

This is such a basic principle of the way the eu market works, one wonders what else has not understood.

Well, surely Brexit brought the Labour party the opportunity to impose VAT on private school fees!! Remember, EU member states areprohibited from charging VAT on education under an EU directive.
That's one benefit!

Whitewavemark2

I asked the question this morning about the benefits that Brexit has brought the U.K.

I have been out all day and have just settled to read the replies.

Not a single post!! Not one!!

What on earth does that say about brexit and frankly those who support it?

It says that no one bites any more.
After 10 years worth of that question.
Personally, I stopped after 6.
Why would anyone answer after all this time.

I wish I'd stopped after one.
If people didnt understand after 12 months, I dont think they will after 120.

MaizieD

^Why cannot you move freely now? We have just come back from Crete and have been abroad three times this year, no problem with freely moving about.^

Because passports of people from 'third countries' have to be scrutinised and date stamped to ensure that they are not exceeding the time allowed to stay in an EU country to ensure that they are not exceeding the 90 day rule or returning too soon after their 90days are up. for me it's a constant reminder of the stupid 'choice' that the UK made.

For people with family in the EU it restricts their ability to visit whenever they please and for however long they please.

For people whose work used to take them in and out of Europe it seriously restricts their ability to work there when ever they had an opportunity. I know several people whose relatives have moved permanently to an EU country because it afforded them much better opportunities to use their skills than staying in the UK.

I don't think that many Leave voters realise how much the lack of freedom of movement buggered up many UK citizens' lives, because it was of no importance to them and they don't give a monkeys about the difficulties faced by those to whom it was important.

And for what?

The EU became sclerotic, despotic. I have never regretted my leave vote.

For those wishing to work in the EU, a work permit or visa can be applied for and 90 days is quite generous to visit family.

You are obviously very pro EU and I am very anti and would prefer our Commonwealth links. What about giving a monkeys for those who voted to leave and won the vote and now face the prospect of a government who are trying to drag the UK back in? If thevote had gone the other way, there would have been no suggestion of a re run!

The government are giving the electorate the choice Meandrogrog. People who want to stay out of the EU won’t vote for them, people who want closer ties with Europe will. There is nothing undemocratic about that, and if the tide has turned, people who voted leave will have their turn to be aggrieved, as those who wanted to stay in the EU have had theirs. C’est la vie.

Casdon

The government are giving the electorate the choice Meandrogrog. People who want to stay out of the EU won’t vote for them, people who want closer ties with Europe will. There is nothing undemocratic about that, and if the tide has turned, people who voted leave will have their turn to be aggrieved, as those who wanted to stay in the EU have had theirs. C’est la vie.

The government gave the electorate the choice in 2016 Casdon. It is undemocratic in the extreme to try to overturn the result. The electorate were told the result would be binding.

I am absolutely sure this would be your exact argument if Remain had won!

I agree with the poster who said why rehash it all. The government should just leave it be and focus on other priorities .

It's been 10 years, Meandrogrog.

Farmers, and people running businesses with endless forms.: academics who were openly sharing knowledge sharing in fields like vital health discoveries, and our students able to travel and share (now slightly reopened, but not funded adequately): our customs services, stretched to the limits, slower movements of perishables, problems getting vital building supplies that ran so easily (and my goodness how prices have gone up in that field).

.are all saying, we got it wrong.

The point that you have not addressed is not just the principle of being in our out of the EU:

But the decision to have a hard Brexit after years of arguments and time spent in parliament debating alternatives, the still problematic border issues in Ireland...

It need not have been that way

Now if we have a situation where enough people realise we got it seriously wrong, it is completely right to re-visit both the principle of leaving

and the particular sort of Brexit.

Now many remainers are not asking to re-join as seen in many posts above

But change the "terms and conditions"

Now what is wrong with that?

It seems to me that you wish to stand in the way of the many I have referred to above for whom a change in the "Ts and C's" is not ideological, but very very practical.

Meandrogrog

Casdon

The government are giving the electorate the choice Meandrogrog. People who want to stay out of the EU won’t vote for them, people who want closer ties with Europe will. There is nothing undemocratic about that, and if the tide has turned, people who voted leave will have their turn to be aggrieved, as those who wanted to stay in the EU have had theirs. C’est la vie.

The government gave the electorate the choice in 2016 Casdon. It is undemocratic in the extreme to try to overturn the result. The electorate were told the result would be binding.

I am absolutely sure this would be your exact argument if Remain had won!

I agree with the poster who said why rehash it all. The government should just leave it be and focus on other priorities .

I think your heart thinks it must be undemocratic, rather than your head Meandrogrog. It isn’t. If it was, other parties would not be proposing changes to the status quo either.

I should have added, but sure its been pointed out upthread, that when we voted we did not know what "kind of Brexit" we were voting for or against.
Many would have assumed "we wanted our sovereignty" but did not for a moment dream it would mean losing those vital trading and pass through customs links.

I think it’s baffling why AB after only being PM for a matter of a few months is reviving the horribly divisive idea of another referendum on the EU.And I do think it’s a gift to Reform.
There is so much wrong with our country at the moment that needs sorting out.Social Care amongst many others.

Wyllow3

I should have added, but sure its been pointed out upthread, that when we voted we did not know what "kind of Brexit" we were voting for or against.
Many would have assumed "we wanted our sovereignty" but did not for a moment dream it would mean losing those vital trading and pass through customs links.

but did not for a moment dream it would mean losing those vital trading and pass through customs links.

In fact we were airily told by some Leave campaigners that leaving the EU didn't mean leaving the Single Market, the source of those links, at all.

Which just exemplifies the point I have already made, there was absolutely no proper detailed Plan made for what would happen once the decision to Leave had been made, there wasn't even agreement among the Leave campaigners as to what leaving actually meant or would entail.

Pleased to see a Sunday broadsheet strongly supporting Burnham’s suggestion of possibly rejoining.

It seems to have excited voters, MPs and civil servants alike.

Over 80% of Labour, Libs and greens support re-entry. The issue that drove the progressive left apart is now driving them together. Even Burnham’s constituency Wakefield is thought to have flipped to supporting remain.

People are understanding the consequences of Brexit and the benefits of rejoining.

One of the many benefits to the U.K. of re-joining would be the Made in Europe policy, which protects European producers from the state subsidised goods pouring in from China. Our car industry is in real danger from this and re-joining would bring real protection.

Makerfield not Wakefield.

I don’t think another referendum on the EU will happen tbh

AB may make it part of the next GE and say if he wins it’s a mandate to do it, but may then lose!