Let's start a blitz on bad grammar - nationwide

I used to get angry when my childrens' spelling and grammar wasn't corrected in their schoolwork, but my daughter is now a teacher and I look after the children one day a week so she can do her marking. It's endless work and she said to me a while ago that she just didn't have the time to correct spelling and grammar as much as she'd like to.Like most jobs [I work for the NHS] everyone is so bogged down with paperwork they struggle to do the really important things. As for my grammar and spelling, it is now terrible [I was going to write apalling but couldn't spell it!], and I'm quite ashamed of it. I do agree, though; I hate to see bad grammar and spelling.

What has happened to the word 'whom' ? I can't remember the last time I heard it used.

Hunt...to whom it may concern. Have I made your day?

supernana - in a word, yes.

It's our generation. We were properly educated and generations after us were not. I went back to work as a humble typist and nearly fainted at what incomprehensible and wrongly spelled rubbish the Directors wrote for me to type.
Also their speech was so poor. How can you have respect for a boss who says, "anythink" and "nothink" and "haitch"? I couldn't. It was all I could do not to laugh, or cry.

there you go

GrAnnie ...I'm known by that name by my grandchildren but, apart from that amazing connection, I LOATHE "there you go" along with "Hiya" and "Seeya" it should be banned forever and a day...and why haven't we a symbol for GRUMPY?

When my husband hears 'seeyah' He usually replies 'Probably not'

On grammar rather than use of words - I find fewer and fewer people are able to use I and me properly - they know that "me and him did this...." is wrong so they overcompensate in other places and say " this is for you and I...."

It is not that difficult After all,you would not say "me did it ...." after you passed the age of 3 so why say "me and you did it...".

Where you would say "we did..." then it is "you and I...." or "he and I...."
Where you would say "for us...." then it must be "for you and me...." etc.

Once upon a time (up to the early 60s) this was taught in English lessons. At that point the emphasis changed to self-expression "If they write anything at all, praise it to the skies" I predicted then that future English teachers were not actually learning any English, so grammar would become a thing of the past.

Yes, all language gradually changes, but the scaffolding on which language is built cannot be suddenly dismantled without a collapse of accurate transmission of meaning.

Joan, once again you're spot on. I took French and German at school and it gave me a much better understanding of how and why I was constructing sentences in English.

Our national game is Australian rules football. When I was younger the commentators would speak of kicking or handballing the ball. Now we have "disposal by foot" or "disposal by hand". The ones that annoy me most though are the noun becoming a verb. In football kicking or scoring a goal become "goaling" or "he goals!", and in the Olympics or Commonwealth Games they no longer win a medal, they now "medal".

As much as accents can make the language unintelligible, if we all speak correct English we at least have a common starting point. Back when Freddie Truman was commentating the cricket I really had to concentrate on what he was saying and then translate it into English in my head, but when Henry Blofeld spoke I understood instantly.

So you're all going to hate me if I split an infinitive? Whatever! (I'm new and I thought you all seemed so well you know what I mean nice.

Hello Sunny Southport from quite sunny Cheshire. Having taught English all my working life, and although I'm an unrepentant pedant in most other respects, I have no objections to split infinitives. It was a misapprehension on the part of grammarians that the two parts of the infinitive should be kept together, using the analogy of other languages, especially Latin. English is unusual in having a splittable infinitive and in my opinion it just adds to the potential for flexibility which makes ours such a wonderful language for literature, and, in particular, poetry.
Try saying aloud 'to go boldly'. Does it sound anything like as strong as 'to boldly go'?

Oh yes, Elegran. The 'you and I' mistake drives me just about as crazy as misplaced apostrophes.

Well Annobel the problem is that although my husband (He got Latin GCE) has very kindly written me an A4 sheet with the correct use of Apostrophes - I fall asleep after the third line.( I just think that communication is the most important issue especially in these times of less society and more the cult of the individual.

Here's my list- not exhaustive unfortunately;

- 'bigger' when it should be 'larger'.
- 'the' when it should be 'thee'
-'going forward'
-'fell pregant'
- 'he's a diabetic/coeliac/ etc etc
-'touch base' any management speak really

I'm too depressed to carry on now!

Correct use of Apostrophes? Lynne Truss has a wonderful book (mentioned earlier). 'Eats Shoots and Leaves'. Very informative and very amusing!

My problem is this - I don't understand why/how anyone gets this wrong!

sunnysouthport -

No, to sometimes split an infinitive is a sign of literary creativity, emphasising whatever you split it with. To always split the damned things, though, is a bit excessive, violent even!

What a lot of people hate are things which show that the user does not really understand what they are saying - using I for me shows they do not understand who-dunnit or who-had-it-done -to-them.

susiecb
- 'he's a diabetic/coeliac/ etc etc

I remember some of my Mum's older friends would say "He's got a liver" or "She's got a kidney" when speaking of peoples' ailments. I'm not sure if it was lack of knowledge of the ailments or just a turn of phrase that was common at the time.

The use of 'grab' as in 'I'm just going to grab a shower' or 'I grabbed a quick snack' says something about 21st century society. It's all about haste and not wanting to wait for anything. I hope I'm not a grabber and I hope I didn't bring up my family to be grabbers!

A quick scan of the posts in this thread, shows that most of us blame the education system for the breakdown in correct grammar and usage. Yes! As a school governor for many years, I used to take part in job interviews for which I had to read the candidates' letters of application. Even for English posts, the misuse of apostrophes was pretty much endemic and I've even seen the 'had of', which is bad enough in speech but a crime in writing.
However, who is it who taught these young teachers? Was it by any chance our generation, seduced by the now discredited fashion for 'free expression'. Now that the National Curriculum allegedly puts a greater emphasis on correctness, who is to teach our grandchildren?

Uh, oh! Hoist with my own petard. There's a missing question mark in my last comment, albeit at the end of a rhetorical question.
Where's my red pen?

It's "Eats, shoots and leaves" - needs the comma to make the point!

How about the word "really" being overused and repeated, (as in something is really really brill etc.). This is one word in the wrong place that can produce steam from hubby's ears.

You're really, really on the ball there, Dobbie.

The "he's a diabetic" comment reminded me of one I hate. It's " he was diagnosed with diabetes". NO - it's the diabetes which is the diagnosis, not the patient. I think this one has gone too far to be reversed now, as "he was given a diagnosis of diabetes" is too long for the modern short attention span and "he has diabetes" is not pretentious enough.