Going forward!

Someone else said something similar about that too, earlier.

I think I shall shriek at the next politician who says 'there are lessons to be learned'!!!! It's a completely meaningless phrase to keep saying, as by now we all know that, having got the message, loud and clear - umpteen times!!!

I like it !

Doing an early morning stint as a number-taker at a polling station in Norfolk, I asked a voter for his number. 'Eye-eye,' he said. 'Pardon?' 'Eye-eye,' he repeated. I looked at his polling card. Eighty eight it said. I never did quite master the dialect of deepest Norfolk which had abandoned some of the inflections of standard English. " 'E goo No'orch" could mean 'He is going/has gone/will go to Norwich' depending on the context.

DH is a Devon boy, when ifirst wanted to move there 40+years ago I found difficulty getting a job, I was told "we don't want no furriners down here taking our girls' jobs" . This by the Establishment Officer of Plymouth City Council. I was astonished , I was from the Midlands!

margaret ; you've been there too...?

Driving along a lane once with exDH we found a dustbin in the middle of the road. Just ahead was a Land Rover. A chap got out, moved the dustbin then approached the drivers side window.

He started talking, DH was giving responses and I was quite impressed at DH's comprehension of the dialect.

Until the conversation finished and ex dh and I turned to each and as one said "What did he say?"

When we came home from Kenya in 1971, we spent 8 months in Devon. On our first foray into a country pub, we might as well have been in a foreign country! I reckoned I could understand Swahili better than I could understand Devonian!

To which you could answer "I be an emmet, dunno where oi bee"

"Arr, you bee a furriner, not helping yew"

I once phoned someone from a pone box in Cornwall and couldn't understand why he kept saying 'wur bee tu'?

I'm sure "wur be to me 'andsome?" ( as DH says occasionally) would confuse many a foreigner, even if they spoke English!

A lady I knew spoke very precise English as if speaking it very carefully as a foreign language. She said she had only spoken Welsh until she went to school, and they always spoke Welsh at home as did most of the children she grew up with.

I will borrow you my pencil if you want, Lilygran

In order to be totally proficient in a language, a learner has to be aware of different registers. There isn't one single form of correct English when it comes to the spoken language. The language used must suit the setting/occasion/context. Language that is appropriate when with friends is generally inappropriate in formal surroundings, but the same is true in the other direction - for example, put a "well-spoken" child in a typical comprehensive, and he would almost certainly be mercilessly teased at the very least!

A few times recently, I have heard "odd" things from people whose accent and demeanour suggest that they have been brought up in this country, but who I guess had parents for whom English was not their first language. I suspect that this sometimes leads to a weaker sense of register.

The most recent example I can think of was when accompanying DH to a hospital appointment. The young(ish) consultant came out to fetch him, and asked if I was his "missus"!

I have to say that it sounded very strange in that environment. At the same time, I wonder if it shows what sort of changes we should perhaps expect to become more widespread in a multicultural society.

I think of someone learning sort of "RP" English then suddenly finding themselves in middle of Glasgow! I worked with a chap rom there for a few years and often had to ask him to repeat things.

There was also a very Devonian manager who I once heard saying to a guest "But where's Missus to? Her should be here so us can tell she about it!"

How many EFL/ESOL/EAL teachers are there on GN? I agree with teaching English as used but if people are going to read literature, write essays and take exams they need to know what is considered to be correct forms. That goes for people for whom (did you see that? ) English is their first language. We all draw the line somewhere. I'll happily allow 'Can I borrow?' but I'd correct 'Can I lend your pencil?' That was the local standard where I went to school but the teachers corrected it to the national standard.

It was only when I moved to the East Midlands that I was confronted by people asking how I was [I'm sure it never happened in Brum or my other homes]. And I still never know how to reply .

I like the Doric version of the 'How are You' ritual which goes:

Question - fit like?
Answer - Nae sae bad.

My mother was one of those who when asked 'How are you' would go into a long recital of her various illnesses, conditions and woes. I have a friend who is even worse in that she tells, in great detail, not only her own entire medical history but also that of the rest of her family. I have DH primed that if he sees me stuck with her in the supermarket, he is to approach immediately and tell me that we have only 5 minutes to finish the shopping and collect DGD, go to the optician, report to the police station, appear in court, rescue the dog, take his medication - his urgent tasks are getting more and more outrageous

All is not really well, Margaret, but I'm coping.

He was originally on the disability support pension for his dodgy knees, agoraphobia and anxiety. Now he has type 2 diabetes, diagnosed 3 months ago, and associated side effects, such as very painful hands and feet, and lots of other stuff. His anxiety has morphed into depression.

In the meantime we both reached and passed retirement age, so the good bit is, I never need to look for work again.

Hope all is well now Joan.
English language varies so much doesn't it, must be confusing when learning in one English speaking country and then go to another.

My course was called TESOL. We taught students from other countries who came here to Australia to learn English, when I did my Prak. Many were South Koreans - lovely kids. I remember pointing out all the different versions of English: my Northern English, the other teacher's Australian English, and the American English on a tape we were using. I said they should be consistent - stick to one version, preferably Australian seeing that they were here. I had to explain what puzzled them - how the locals get the grammar so wrong for instance!!

But I never used my new skill: just as I was finishing my course, my husband became ill and I was put on a carer's pension to look after him.

I am a Cambridge ESOL examiner and I agree the terms used are very confusing. It is my understanding that the term TESOL (Teaching English to Speakers of other Languages ) is now in the process of taking over from TEFL (Teaching English as a Foreign Language ) and TESL (Teaching English as a Second Language ).Of course,we have a different term in schools: EAL (English as an Additional Language )!!! Different terms but all with the same aim: helping those who are desperate for one reason or another to be able to speak our beautiful but complex language. A very rewarding job .

CELTA seems to ring a bell? Or has that been overtaken by something else?

ESOL, for speakers of other languages living in the UK, and TEFL, for training native speakers of UK English to teach it abroad, are separate and have different approaches. At least, that is what I have always understood. Both are useful.

ESOL, as it is now called, involves teaching students at various levels to speak, write and understand English. They do have exams at each stage and, although they will learn conversational English on the way, grammar is a part of this process, especially at the higher levels of the Cambridge English programme

Unless things have changed in the TEFL world, atqui, people are not taught the 'correct' way to speak their native language but how to help non-native speakers to understand what native speakers say (idiom included) and to use the language so that they are understood. Interjections such as "like" and "y'know" will certainly be covered when and where appropriate – i.e. if they crop up.

Which they do.

Sorry - "nor"