Grammar

Oh, t'was ever thus

Seriously, of course we don't want all our politicians to be Old Etonians, perish the thought, but neither do we want them to be uneducated. I admire AR for getting where she is today but perhaps it is time for her to assess her qualifications. I have seen her looking very ill at ease on Question Time and wondered if it is due to a lack of confidence which some further/higher education could fix.

'my bad'? What does this mean?My mistake perhaps ? lNever heard that expression before.

On the question of grammar - where did signage come from? What's wrong with signs, does it mean something different? To top that though a weather reporter used the word windage last week! Gives me a giggle though ...

BBbevan it is used to acknowledge responsibility for a mistake. Two words and it's done.

What it also probably means is that the person saying it is considerably younger than you and, just as our generation did, annoying some old people when we did it, they are playing with the language - something I find delightful if occasionally confusing.

I have a feeling Shakespeare (however he was spelling his name at the time) would not understand us or even those with their oh so precise view of what others should say. It just tells us language evolves and we are getting older.

'My bad' is used now when someone makes a mistake BBbevan, this morning the sports presenter on breakfast TV said " the team were capitulated" !

'My mistake' is also two words conveying the same message.

Well I am ‘writing’ to complain about the falling education standards. I ‘wrote ‘ to the education secretary on same subject and have ‘written’ many times before! Then I only had a second class secondary school education ...which was excellent ...well rounded ...and thorough.

Mea culpa. Christinefrance

I wonder which has most advanced and enriched our lives throughout our evolution , creativity - including linguistic creativity - or grammar. My money is definitely on creativity.

That said, I also cringe every time I hear 'my bad'!

Just been told 'my bad' is an Americanism. I shall not use it.

'My mistake' is also two words conveying the same message.

And it could have been six pages in Elizabethan England - so what? This is how the language changes. Your comment reminds me of the story of Canute who had to show that he had no control over natural forces to courtiers who tried to say he had. Perhaps the courtiers were from the older generation and set in our ways. Pedantry is interesting when it clarifies the rules of grammar but very boring when it tries to hold up the tide of change and likely to have the same result as Canute.

I have nothing but admiration for Angela Rayner for doing so well from her own efforts with such a difficult start in life. It's policies that matter, and I'm sure she will have more ideas on the educational needs of 'the many not the few' than Michael Gove for example, however faultless his grammar.
In any case, speech patterns don't always need to be based on standard English. Language is living and evolving, and the test is whether it is comprehensible, not whether it conforms to outmoded rules.

and set in their ways not ours.

MamaCaz, linguistic creativity and good grammar are not mutually exclusive.

It’s nothing to do with age, either. My children and their children may have some new words in their vocabulary and use some expressions I don’t know, but their grammar is the same as mine.

Grammar also changes. Presumably, that is why even the best-known books of grammar usage are periodically revised.

Of course language evolves over time. And whilst it is doing that, we can choose which we use of the phrases currently in vogue...without being accused of being reactionary.

It's the 'was' that gets me. 'What was you thinking when that happened?' 'Was you happy about that?' Some of the daytime TV interviewers are terrible for that and Bradley Walsh on The Chase 'If you was to win some money today, what would you do with it?'

Presumably you wouldn't want to return to...thou wast...?

I've been thinking more about this since following this thread, and realising how regional, nonstandard accents and syntax are treated as ignorance.

Perhaps we should start the battle against prejudice with our own compatriots?

... realising how regional, nonstandard accents and syntax are treated as ignorance.

Ain't that the case!

Of course language evolves, but 'have wrote' is still not correct. Different accents are not treated as indications of ignorance; incorrect grammar is. 'Have wrote' and similar mistakes are those which would have been corrected gently in speech many times during primary school, at least. Nothing to do with background.
The most important point remains: this woman has been appointed Shadow Secretary of State for Education.
I believe it is now compulsory for teachers to be educated to degree level before they qualify; pretty insulting then to appoint a woman unable to construct a simple sentence grammatically to be responsible for them.

Angela Rayner left school as a pregnant teenager without qualifications.

"I grew up on a council estate - which was not without its challenges. Throughout my life my Mum struggled with mental health problems and life for me, my brother and sister wasn’t the easiest. For the most part, I was raised by my Grandma who worked at three jobs to put food on the table and didn't stop until the day she died — three days before her 65th birthday.

Growing up in those circumstances has shaped who I am and what I believe.

A parent in my teens, I got a job as soon as I was old enough. Staying on in education wasn’t something for people like me and I wanted to make sure my son had a better start in life than I did."

She has achieved an amazing amount from a deprived upbringing. We need more people like her in politics. Although I admit her speaking style grates on me sometimes! Not her grammar or her accent, but her lazy way of speaking, missing out consonants (glottal stop?) as in ma''er for matter.

Is it possible that she was going to momentarily undecided as to whether to say "have written" or "wrote" - and ended up saying a combination of the two?

Marieeliz You know for a fact do you that children go to school hungry because their parents don't bother? Have you seen the pitiful state of some people sleeping on the streets? Who on earth would do that if they were of sound mind or had an alternative?