Burqa or niqab- why can’t people get it right?

Chewbacca, you state that YOU don’t like them,do you have to to? We are all allowed to like or dislike but everyone to their own opinion. Maybe you could direct your energy to something that is important.

I have friends who are Muslim and cover their heads. I have no problem with that but it is much more common now

Long ago I read that the originator of this religion didn't like people looking and commenting on his young wives so decided that they should go hidden from view. I think it was something Geraldine Brooks researched while her husband was working in the middle East.im happy to be corrected.

Well, I have to confess that I had to look up the various definitions, and I have Muslim friends and acquaintances, some of whom adopt modest dress, and others who don’t. I don’t see it as a problem, unless women feel coerced to dress in a certain way. Let’s not forget, too, that Christian women of certain sects also wear head coverings, and some Jewish women wear sheitels or wigs.

I don't think banning certain clothing will help these women. Many will simply be restricted more in being permitted to go out. I read an article recently about Jewish women being required to cover up more. Cant remember which country. So its not just Muslims. What gives men the right??!!

exactly, it is a nuanced situation. It is unwise of any of us to make assumptions.

Perhaps valid is the wrong word - perhaps 'relevant to their circumstances' would be more appropriate.

grandtante and oldbatty

You seem to have encountered different groups of women.

I would think that both reasons are valid - choice and pressure.
There are also groups of Muslim women who prefer to wear Western dress - albeit modest, much like many of us who are not Muslim.

This idea that mother in law or husband is pulling the strings is such a cliche.

I have spoken to many women who stress, very clearly ,that it is their choice to wear what they choose.

I have worked with many Muslims and most agree that the various forms of garments that completely shroud and veil the female figure are a cultural requirement, not a religious one. The Qu'ran states that both men and women should dress decently.

Like the Bible, the Qu'ran is open to interpretation, so viewpoints differ as to what dressing decently actually means. During the pilgrimage to Mecca women must not be veiled, but may cover their bodies as much as they want.

Some Muslim women and girls choose for religious reasons to wear a headscarf, a burqa or a niqab, but some of the women I know who do so, admit that they do so because their parents, mothers-in-law or husbands want them to do so, and are agreeing for the sake of peace at home. Obviously, a ban on the more enveloping forms of dress, helps these women.

If I travel to Jordan, Saudi Arabia, the united Emirates or Pakistan, I would naturally wear long sleeved shirts and a head-scarf out of respect for the prevailing opinion in these countries.

So why should we not require women not to walk around completely hidden behind face veils in our society?

Johnson aims to normalise rudeness to Muslims – the easiest hate targets following Islamist terror attacks. In every society, racism is only dormant for as long as it stays socially unacceptable, but it’s a virus easily released by any contemptible politician willing to stoop so low.

So its not the same as somebody being asked to remove a crash helmet, or a sign banning people wearing hoodies or pedantics.

It is concerning that women are attacked for their mode of dress, particularly when it seems that one of the reasons for wearing the niqab and burka is to preserve the modesty of wearer and dissuade attention of males, when in actual fact it makes them more obvious. Statistically it is a minority of Muslim women who choose to veil their faces and I think to ban the niqab and burka would be very counter productive.

An abnormal spike in anti-Muslim abuse aimed at women wearing the hijab and niqab has been recorded by the government-backed hate crime monitoring group Tell Mama.

As I said, pedantics.

no its not, you can't observe that. Its an impossibility.

Pedantics

How can you observe the fact that a man has told a woman to wear certain clothing?

I can see that it a hot dusty sandy country being covered up might be a good idea. But in the uk you need to be able to get some vitamin d. Behind these things there are often practical reasons like Roman soldiers wearing sandals.
If people wear untypical clothing they must be prepared for comment.

Haven't read the thread, just the title.

What's wrong with just calling things that cover the face face-coverings?

I agree Chewbacca Good post.
In answer to your query about face covering oldbatty I based my comment on information I have read and what I have observed myself.

Being disingenuous about hoodies doesn't work for me oldbatty. If you prefer to ignore the fact that some sections of society are prohibited from entering certain buildings, purely because what they are wearing is obscuring their faces, then that has to be the case for all sections of society. Otherwise, it's discriminatory. And, like you, I feel strongly against discrimination; whoever it's against.

Discrimination in that there’s one rule for them and another for a different group, yes, Batty.

You know, I think you are onto something there..... No hoodies, no Muslims. Yes that would work.

There are shops around here which state who they will and won't accept.
Hoodies, no more than 2 school children at a time.
They don't mention Muslims at all.
So yes, I suppose hoodies are discriminated against.

Well, David Cameron did tell us to 'hug a hoodie'.
I hugged one today, but it was my friend with her rain hood pulled right up.